Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm pretty new to the luger game, and I'm stumped with the one I just purchased. It has the commercial banner on the toggle, and from what I've read would be in line with a police luger, but has no eagle over L proof mark just waffenampts. I will appreciate any information!
643062
643063
643064
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Your Luger has a b suffix letter which is too late to have been part of the police acquired Lugers that were in the y suffix range. It was apparently - going by the inspection & acceptance stamps - pressed into military service.
 

·
Gold Bullet Member 2012
Joined
·
1,152 Posts
My guess is that you have a 1942 byf that has had it's center toggle link replaced with the Mauser link. The 135 stamps and the "b" suffix are consistent with a 1942 byf.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
My guess is that you have a 1942 byf that has had it's center toggle link replaced with the Mauser link. The 135 stamps and the "b" suffix are consistent with a 1942 byf.

It seemed to me that the toggle link matched the serial of the pistol, and the bluing was consistent between the toggle, and the rest of the interior
 

·
Gold Bullet Member 2012
Joined
·
1,152 Posts
From what I can see it looks like you have a very nice looking Luger. But just because a numbered part matches it doesn't mean it was original. Here is a 42 byf with original parts and a 7 in the serial number. Compare the font of the 7 on the middle toggle on this gun to the 7 on yours. There appears to be a difference. Your Mauser stamp looks a little off center also.
 

Attachments

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,370 Posts
I do not know for sure, and would look in Joop/Don's book to check their book on serial numbers for a banner Mauser. But a banner would be commercial, so numbers added after army procurement?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,401 Posts
Guys, the 4s are different between the 41 or 42 byf and the 41 or 42 date on Banners. Study them diligently and soon you'll see the difference. Then you'll know if this particular Luger has had the middle link changed or not. No police accepted Banners or commercial Banners are found in the 'b' range. Regards, JIM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Guys, the 4s are different between the 41 or 42 byf and the 41 or 42 date on Banners. Study them diligently and soon you'll see the difference. Then you'll know if this particular Luger has had the middle link changed or not. No police accepted Banners or commercial Banners are found in the 'b' range. Regards, JIM
Can you explain this more to me?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,401 Posts
Police and commercial Mauser Banner Lugers are only found in the w, x and y suffix ranges. The style of the 4s in the dates of the byf and Banner Lugers are different. As I said, study them and you will see the difference between the two. Regards, Jim Cate, author of the Sauer reference books.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
TR,

Not a bad looking Luger. I hope you will enjoy it. My advice to anyone wishing to get into this hobby is to buy books (and read them) before you invest in Lugers.

I agree with what others here have said, your pistol looks like a standard army issue BYF 42 Luger that someone somewhere at sometime replaced the center BYF marked toggle link with a Mauser Banner marked toggle link. Anyway, that’s the most likely explanation but perhaps not the only explanation.

Getting back to books, on page 140 of Jan Still’s “Third Reich Lugers and Their Accessories” the author lists and describes German Army Banners that are Banner Lugers with Army proofing. The author states that; “A very few Banner Lugers bear German Army acceptance stamps and were routed to the German Army. Almost all of these are dated 1940… “

A list of known examples follows and the author lists one 41 dated example (6683q) as a known 41 dated Army proofed Mauser Banner. If there exists a legitimate 41 date Army Mauser Banner who can say their never was a 42 dated Army Mauser Banner?

Is your pistol a legitimate 42 Mauser Banner Army? I don’t think so. The numbers on your Banner toggle don’t look right to me. Number ones on Lugers almost always are made of two lines with a serif on top as on your extractor.

But who is to say for certain when and where that Banner appeared on your pistol?

“There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”. Buy books!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
TR,

Not a bad looking Luger. I hope you will enjoy it. My advice to anyone wishing to get into this hobby is to buy books (and read them) before you invest in Lugers.

I agree with what others here have said, your pistol looks like a standard army issue BYF 42 Luger that someone somewhere at sometime replaced the center BYF marked toggle link with a Mauser Banner marked toggle link. Anyway, that’s the most likely explanation but perhaps not the only explanation.

Getting back to books, on page 140 of Jan Still’s “Third Reich Lugers and Their Accessories” the author lists and describes German Army Banners that are Banner Lugers with Army proofing. The author states that; “A very few Banner Lugers bear German Army acceptance stamps and were routed to the German Army. Almost all of these are dated 1940… “

A list of known examples follows and the author lists one 41 dated example (6683q) as a known 41 dated Army proofed Mauser Banner. If there exists a legitimate 41 date Army Mauser Banner who can say their never was a 42 dated Army Mauser Banner?

Is your pistol a legitimate 42 Mauser Banner Army? I don’t think so. The numbers on your Banner toggle don’t look right to me. Number ones on Lugers almost always are made of two lines with a serif on top as on your extractor.

But who is to say for certain when and where that Banner appeared on your pistol?

“There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”. Buy books!

I really appreciate all of this info. I suppose at the end of the day even with the replacement toggle I can't complain since I got an incredible deal
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,401 Posts
I stand corrected: v, w, x, and y are the Banner ranges. Sorry, I just got in a hurry writing my answer.
Jim Cate
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top