[Ron Smith]

I have been offered a Police Luger, by (vague) discription only.
Discribe as being a scarce 1933 "no date" police. The Luger was identified by Ralph Shattuck at the last Reno show. I have no other info on it, and have not had an opportunity to inspect it yet. It has a sear safety and possibly a mag safety. And matching mags.


Mr Shattuck offered the seller $1600 for it. However,the owner did'nt sell it. Being suspicious of such a quick offer. He assumed it may be worth considerably more than was offered.


I have not been able to find anything discribed as a "1933 no date". Is it possible that this could be an "Oberndorf"? It is Police unit marked "L.D." with numbers. (Landjägerei Düsseldorf Dist.)


The seller is a well known and trusted local gun collector, who is not into Lugers, therefore unknowledgable as to markings, proofs,etc. Hence the vague discription. This pistol was in an estate purchase.

Any WAGs as to which variation this could be?

Thanks, Ron

 

[taudelt]

Ron....... My guess would be a so called "Sneak". Was just looking thru Jan's THE PISTOLS OF GERMANY AND IT'S ALLIES IN TWO WORLD WARS" and in it he talks about most of them being in the r,s,t, and u serial blocks. Many went to the Prussian Police so the LD would fit.

 

[Ron Smith]

Hi Dave,
I thought that sneaks were of an earlier period. Would this be a 1929 DWM? The reference to 1933 was what was confusing me. Are "Sneaks" that desirable? I understood that they were priced similar to police reworks. Am I wrong? Don't know much about them. I will try to contact him today to get more info on it.

Thanks, Ron

 

[Edward Tinker]

and then "v" blocks also but prior to 1931. I am traveling, but do have Weimar with me and it says lots of nazi police guns were procured from 1933-1937, but they were ONLY S/42 code.

Of course, someone might be confused, and the date 1933 is wrong and it was really 1931 or 1930.

Ed

 

[Ron Smith]

Hey Ed,
I was just checking the books. Reese' "Luger Tips" in his values section lists "Sneaks" from 1939 (typo? probably 1929) thru 1933. So maybe this is the key to the 1933 reference. I can't find anything else that specificly addresses "Sneaks".

Ron

 

[Edward Tinker]

It is discussed at length in Third Reich Lugers, only early nazi info in Weimar under the early Nazi section, with nothing said about sneaks if I remember right.

Ed

 

[Ron Smith]

Ed, I guess I should look in the right book. I expected it to be in Weimar volume. Give yourself a raise. Tell them that I said it was OK.
Thanks, Ron

 

[Jan C Still]

Ron
Almost all Landjagerei stamped Lugers are new manufactured 29 DWM Lugers manufactured by DWM(BKIW) in 1929/early 1930 for the Prussian State Landjagerei. These are almost always in the s, t, and u suffix serial range and bear a sear and magazine safety. They are sometimes matched to 1929 dated police holsters(see Weimar Lugers page v & vi. 31-34, 146-154)

 

[Policeluger]

Ron, there are the 1908/1920/1933 police re-works, a 1908 model, police Weimar period marked grip strap, or not, and police sear safety added after 1933...hence 1908.1920 1933....could this be it??

 

[Ron Smith]

Jan and Howard,

I just talked to him, and got the ser# and suffix. It's 2320u. So that would make it a DWM 29, it also has E/WaA66 and E/H stamps. And it only has one magazine. Which matches with a 1 on the base.
So the mystery is solved. I just can't figure Ralph offering $1600 for it. I believe the sellers story about the offer, because he is notoriously honest, and has a long reputation as such. I need to go see it first hand.
Thanks, Ron

 

[Jan C Still]

The term "1933 Mauser Sneak" was first coined by a still prominent dealer many many years ago. The misleading term was used in my first book (Volume I, 1982, page 79-85) and in Axis Pistols(1986), page 146-151) The Axis Pistols(1989) information is corrected by a footnote on page 147(1989 reprint).

Detailed research by collectors in the United States and Germany indicated that the so called "1933 Mauser Sneak" was almost certainialy manufactured in 1929 and early 1930 by DWM (BKIW). In Third Reich Lugers(1988) the term "1929 DWM" is used (for the first time) in reference to the Lugers previously termed "1933 Mauser Sneak"(see page 203-217). In Weimar Lugers the 29 DWM is covered in detail in word and picture on page v, 31-34, and 146-154`
Jan

 

[Ron Smith]

Jan,
Thanks for the interesting information.

Ron

 

[Policeluger]

Ron, I have seen Ralph by guns, looking 5 years in the future as to what it may bring. I believe that if the gun was clean enough to warrent this type of buying, Ralph would do it.

 

[donmaus]

Ron,

For my database of Weimar police marks, do you have the weapon number that goes along with "L.D."? Thanks very much.

 

[Ron Smith]

Don, I haven't been able to see it yet. When I do, I will be sure and get the numbers for you. Keep getting sidetracked, and haven't connected with the owner yet.

Ron

 

[donmaus]

Ron, I appreciate your keeping this on your "To Do" list.

 

[Ron Smith]

I finally got a look at it today. It is a 1929 "sneak". Blank chamber and toggle with sear safety and "magazine safety in tact". Unit marked L.D.12. Approx. 90% condition. The acceptance and proofs seemed faint. Is this common? As if stamped prior to final polish. The pistol did not appear to be reblued, but the quality as compared to earlier rust blues, did not seem to be as good. The asking price is $1400. In my estimation, a bit steep.
Any other opinions? Ron

 

[Edward Tinker]

$1400 seems a bit high to me for a 90%, a 95% I might go that high. HOWEVER if mag safety intact, buying a mag safety on e-bay is a $200-$300 option... If you could find one. And fairly rare too, to find one intact, I have heard of maybe 4 that I know of...

Ed

 

[Ron Smith]

Ed,
So, what do you think? Should I go for it? I've got the option. He's holding it for me. I did'nt know just how rare they were to find.
Thanks, Ron

PS

I tend to be conservative and too critical on my grading. So it could be actually be a 95% pistol. The only problem was a bit of pepper on the left side of the front sight band.

 

[Edward Tinker]

Will he take less, will he trade? Does he have anything extra he could toss in for free?

Ed