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Hi sonnyboy!
I'm still working at the Fliegerhorst Penzing... (-:

Greets from Landsberg/Penzing,

tom
Guten Tag, Herr Oberstleutnant! My C-130 squadron flew in support of LTG-61 back then [late-1980's]...One Luftwaffe C-160 squadron was off in Africa delivering food; we took over their NATO commitments for two weeks or so...Due to lack of barracks space, some of us [me included!] were billeted at Lager Lechfeld...An enjoyable and interesting two weeks... :)
 
Scott.
I totally agree if you substitute the word "assumptions" for the word "knowledge". All of the "rifle world" conclusions are drawn from observations and analysis, not documentation. All of the conclusions drawn by the Luger fraternity are likewise based on observations and analysis within historical context. We both have our bias based on our research and history. I do not reject your position without giving it careful consideration, as I do not wave off other's opinions, but as I have noted on other debates on Luger matters, I find your opinions compelling but not conclusive.
Ron
So absent period documentation the sum of all other evidence is nothing more than observations and assumptions which can never equate to conclusive knowledge? Per my earlier comments and CB’s example above - this standard suggests that the German Nazi era pistol collecting community should still be debating that E/K, F, C and L marked German pistols are indeed police markings. I believe the sum of other evidence is conclusive and has sufficiently answered this question just as it has with the use of the lazy s dhd exclusively on Nazi era SS reworked rifles and P08’s.

Researchers and investigators are not always blessed with a smoking gun. At some point a reasonable person must conclude that if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck – it’s a duck.
 
Agreed. And, not to duck the issue :), that is why a non-Nazi origin of the marking is just as valid as your "evidence" (which by the way is indeed just observations and assumptions). You aren't getting the response to your position that you want to hear, so you keep re-hashing the same arguments. Lacking hard evidence (records/documentation, call it what you will) you aren't going to change and I, and others, are not going to change based on empirical data collected by either side of the controversy (and reflecting their respective bias). So I think we should just agree to disagree and let it go.
Respectfully,
Ron
 
The trouble with a merry-go-round is, you never seem to get any where. Time to saddle another horse and move on.
Pat
 
Look what I have found...

The Freikorps Caspari from the town Bremen (Bremer Stadtwehr - Bremen militia), 01.11.1919, since 01.09.1920 official Schutzpolizei of Bremen.
Freikorps leader was the former Major Walter Caspari, born at 26.07.1877 in Detmold.

This Freikorps was engaged at the battles against the so called "Bremer Räterepublik". Caspari was the leader of the Bremen Schutzpolizei from 1920 till 10.04.1933 (leaving the Police as a police general).

This Freikorps was using the death head as an official sign...




[The book handles about the memories of the Freikoprs Caspari...]

And this is a Little "bonbon" for you (but no connection to the Freikoprs Caspari), just for info :rolleyes:...



Tom
 
Of course not CB! As you well know there is zero evidence to suggest that the Lazy-S Dhd variation existed prior to the Nazi era.
Yes, that is why one only finds them on Imperial/Weimar lugers; I've never seen one on a "real" Nazi luger, but maybe I disremember.

Someone my have posted one, and I missed it.
 
Yes, that is why one only finds them on Imperial/Weimar lugers; I've never seen one on a "real" Nazi luger, but maybe I disremember.

Someone my have posted one, and I missed it.
Agree that no "real" Nazi era P08s have been found with a period applied Lazy-S Dhd.

However, last I checked those crazy Nazis didn't throw out all the weapons inherited from preceding Imperial and Weimar times. In fact those crazy Nazis have a rich history of reworking/refurbing and reissuing such weapons...often with some new markings added.

In any case - the devil is in the details.
 
This one's like a bad dream. I'll still can't get past the idea that this symbol has something to do with infinity. The open "Lazy Eight" was used by Leonhard Euler, a Swiss Mathematician, to indicate "Absolutus Infinitus", absolute infinity. He taught at the Berlin Academy until he incurred the ire of Frederick the great. He died in Russia. I believe the FreiKorps considered Communist and intellectuals, Germany's greats enemies. The S S weren't the only bad boys on the block. They just bragged a little more than the rest.
Pat
 
Agree that no "real" Nazi era P08s have been found with a period applied Lazy-S Dhd.

However, last I checked those crazy Nazis didn't throw out all the weapons inherited from preceding Imperial and Weimar times. In fact those crazy Nazis have a rich history of reworking/refurbing and reissuing such weapons...often with some new markings added.

In any case - the devil is in the details.
Of course the devil is in the details, and in the evidence.

I just find it quite odd that not one Mauser made P 08 has been pictured with a deaths head on the chamber. Given the time frame of the SS rise in the 3rd Reich, and their leader, I would think that there would be at least a few.

But then maybe I'm just being logical.
 
There is no “evidence” to support that throughout the history of the Mauser Co. during the period 1871-1945 any variation of deaths heads was applied to standard, factory produced for military issue, pistols, rifles or bayonets.

So I am uncertain where to begin with your comments except with a question.

Based on the “evidence”, as well as your understanding of the history of Mauser Co. and the SS – please clarify why it would be “logical” to find any variation of deaths heads applied to Nazi era, standard, factory produced for military issue, pistols, rifles or bayonets. You specifically mentioned Nazi era P08’s. Given Mauser Co.’s extensive weapons portfolio I wonder why you believe P08’s would be an exception. I look forward to your thoughts as well as “evidence” to support your case.
 
I assumed it was a 1917 DH or at the latest a Weimer era added DH, that was reworked for Nazi use. I did not mean to suggest the DH was added by the Nazi's. In skimming through all the photo's, I did not see a DH Luger with any Nazi era markings so I thought I would post this.
 
SU 25 is the "Heereszeugamtstempel Spandau 1925", reworked by Spandau (obviously new barrel). There is no conjunction to the Nazis rather to the use during the Weimar period (Reichswehr)...
Best regards from Ulm, Germany

Tom
 
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