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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Very rare old warrior. ( photos replaced)

A pretty basic 1917 Erfurt. Ser# 4261g. A bit worse for wear, and with about 80% blue and just a hint of strawing left. Bore is excellent.

It has the typical Erfurt acceptance and proof marks on virtualy every part. C/RC stamped on the barrel and rear toggle.

It has the Erfurt chamber notch for an Artillery sight.

It has the "chipped crown" pg 344 of Costanzos'


The stamp on the trigger guard looks like a C/S.


I posted a question previously about the unit marks. Unusually small font and stamped along the edge of the front grip, reversed from the usual application. Top to bottom. Not to regulation. Only .05% of 1917 Erfurts were unit marked. As per Imperial Lugers by Jan Still.



With the help of forum member and advanced collector, Geo Anderson.
I have gotten a unit mark translation courtesy of unit mark expert Mr Klaus Schad.

17.3KP.FLA.M.G.ABT.912

17th section
3rd Kompagnie
Fliegerabwehr-Machinengewehr
Abteilung 912


Fliegerabwehr(Flyer Defense) or Flugabwehr(Air Defense) units known as "Flamgas'", were formed in 1916-1917. To defend command posts, supply depots, ammo dumps,etc., from Allied air attack. Each unit was made up of 3 companies, with 12 machineguns in each company. Geo and Mr Schad state that this is a very rare unit mark. As it was applied after unit marks were no longer required. And due to the limited number of "Flamgas'". Consisting of MG Abteilungs No. 801,803,901-921 and 925. For a total of only 23 Sections.(pg192 of Imperial German Army 1914-1918 organization,structure,orders-of-battle. By Hermann Cron)
Mr Schad states that this unit was formed January 1st 1917, and was part of the 7th Army group.
Page 211 of ~Histories of 251 Div~ indicates that the 17 Anti-Aircraft section was attached to the 12th Inf. Div.


I would like to thank my friend, Geo. Anderson and Mr Klaus Schad for the valuable information and assistance in identifying this mark. I am a very happy unit mark collector, and feel very fortunate to have found this Luger.

I apologize for the poor photo's, but it's raining and outdoor natural lighting is poor at best.

Ron
 

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Ron

Very nice old war bird, good representation of a well used luger. Nice to have the expertise of the forum members to assist in the unit mark translation.Good going Ron Wood ,George Anderson and Mr. Klaus Schad
 

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Ron
Outstanding photographs and presentation of 1917 Erfurt, sn 4261g marked: 17.3KP.FLA.M.G.ABT.912 which signifies: 17Th Reg. or Weapon(I am unclear on this),3rd Kompagnie, Fliegerabwehr-Machinengewehr, Abteilung 912. You have found a unit markings collectors treasure.
Jan
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Lou, It is nice to have people who have taken the time, and honed their obsession to an art. And are willing to share it. Thanks!

Thankyou Jan, Coming from someone who has some of the nicest examples I have ever seen. That is truly a compliment!

Ron
 

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Ron, I'm happy that you were able to get this Luger. Klaus alone deserves the credit for interpreting the markings. The depth of Klaus' knowledge in this area is truly impressive. He has helped me many times in the past and not just with unit markings but also with interpretation of ranks and understanding of Imperial Army organization. I believe that much of his knowledge comes from his own original research.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks George! I've been pretty lucky on alot of my buys, but alot of it is to your credit. You have given me some outstanding advice. And be sure to thank Klaus for me. I appreciate it very much.

Jan, That's a great sketch. I love stuff like that. I have a photo coming of a Flamga gunner also. Thanks for posting that. Looking forward to meeting you in Reno. I missed you last time.

Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Patrice,

That's a good photo. I'm not sure what the gun is. I would guess it might be French. I'm not certain that it is a German photo, even though I purchased it from a German seller. The uniform doesn't look familiar, possibly Austrian. The separate leather leggings look Spanish.

Ron
 

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I believe it's a French machine gun. The guy toying with it is an Imperial German officer judging by his uniform and hat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Geo,

I wasn't sure about the uniform. Haven't seen many of the "Hind Side" of german officers.


Jan,

I just thought that some of the old posts should be refreshed after the change. I'm accumulating more of them and will repost/refresh the photos. It's kind of fun to go through them and see the progression. I'm hoping that some of the other members will do the same, if possible.

Ron

No problem
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Up dated this earlier posting with some additional photos added to the original post. One of the photos shows a Fleigabwehr unit using captured French St. Entienne 1907/16 machine guns in May 1917.
 
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