[refurb]

I just picked up a 41/42 Ku Luger along with the capture paper from the Vet who brought it back. This Luger is in excellent condition. With all matching serial numbers including the grips. It also came with a shoulder holster. I'm not convinced this is orginal to the pistol. I know this is one of the more controversial Lugers. Some think it was a Mauser contract Luger for the Kustenfliegerstafflen. Others think it was a Kreighoff rework. All I know is that their is no knowed Kreighoff proof marks that matches the Ku proof mark. Anyway I would like to know more about this Luger. And the Kustenfliegerstafflen.

 

[lugerlou]

refurb

Welcome to the forum

Re your Kü luger, is the Kü before or after the serial number.

You are correct that the Kü marked lugers origin is a very controversial topic.

The theory that the Kü marked luger is Krieghoff related because of the luftwaffe acceptance stamps on the receiver, frame and barrel has been dismissed by Randall Gibson himself based on his extensive research into Krieghoff pistols.

Their is also another theory that the Kü is an reject acceptance of assembled Mauser parts that went to the Hungarians who during WW#2 were allies to Germany.

The theory that the Kü stamp belongs to the Kustenfliegerstafflen is one that has not been explored in great detail however if you follow the normal course of Germany and her allies the luger was seldom carried as an airman's sidearm due the weight and bulk of a luger. The airman usually equipped themselves with private purchases of smaller arms in the event they were shot down.

Following this reasoning if the Kü stamp was for the (Coastal flying crews )kustenfliegerstafflen why do we not find any Krieghoff manufactured lugers with the Kü stamp as Goehring was both in charge of these crews and the Luftwaffe in general.

My personal beliefs on the Kü marked lugers is a Mauser contract made during the latter days of luger production.

The frame exhibits no krieghoff machining or marking so I fully support Mr. Gibson's findings ( not a Krieghoff)

The luftwaffe acceptance proofs on the barrel and the frame and receiver is one that should not be overlooked, just because it is luftwaffe proofed a krieghoof it does not make.

41/42 is Mauser acceptance codes and the frame exhibits mauser machining, not leftover DWM parts or any other manufacturer which is another theory.

The Hungarian contract is one that I tend to support although it is in it's infancy as far as research goes.

The Germans were gearing up for an all out assault against the Russian forces in 42 so it would not suprise me to find out if some of the late production were procured by the Luftwaffe and sent to Hungary.

This theory however does not stand up to the serialization of earlier marked Kü lugers.

I own one Kü marked luger and will be posting pictures in a couple of weeks or so.You will find two pictures under mauser lugers in the same heading as yours.

I fully realize that you are now more confused than when you asked the question, but as you said Very controversial subject.

Another possibility that I just realized is that Kufstein was a plant in Austria that was turned over to the Krieghoff authorities by the luftwaffe under decree that they would be utilized by the firm.

This thought could be the reason that the lugers were luftwaffe proofed and bears a strong possibility to the fact that some Kü marked lugers bear the Mauser inscription of spare parts (42)

Mauser manufactured parts could have been transported to this plant when Mauser started assembling the P38 full time and did not have time or choose to assemble the piecesa in their plants.

 

[refurb]

lugerlou,
Thanks for the reply. The Ku on mine follows after the serial number. Their is a Ku proof mark on the left side of the barrel, along with a Mauser proof I belive its a 555. Also a Ku proof on the left side of the breechblock. And a Ku proof on the right side of the receiver. I will post pictures if someone will tell me how on this forum. Actually I'm not more confused on your reply. But find it vary informative. I have been collecting Lugers for years now. What does confuse me is that all the older books on Lugers I think are not 100% accurate. Some even contradict themselves. I think the books by Jan C Still are vary good and up to date.

 

[lugerlou]

refurb

Check out the top of the forum under tech help and you will find out how to post pictures, are you saying that the Kü proof is the LWA proof or is the letters Kü stamped on the places you stated.

The 555 is possibly a 655 and if this is on the right receiver we are getting somewhere.

This is a late Mauser acceptance, please post photo's of your complete luger and lots of them, could you include the underside of the toggle assembly and the firing pin left and right sides.

The older books as you stated do have some discrepencies however this is primarily due to forums such as this one where collectors from all over the world have combined their efforts to prove or disprove several points. This is not a discredit to the respective authors but more of a credit as they had the perceverance and talent to put the books in print based on the knowledge at hand.

Mr Still's books are some of the finest in print and data.

Not to flog the horse but the Kü lugers have peaked my interest and yours sounds very exciting.

Would you post the serial number and does your luger exhibit the Mauser hump on the back of frame.

Thanks James

 

[refurb]

The LZA proofs are on the places I stated. The only Mauser or Waffen AMP is on the barrel. It could be 655 but it's hard to tell. Will be posting pictures when I get home from work.

 

[refurb]

Sorry my camera cannot focus too close

 

[refurb]

One more try

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Last one for now

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And some more

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Another View

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[lugerlou]

refurb

Thankyou for the photo's, you do not need to start a new post each time you insert a photo. Just go back to the insert an image icon ( paperclip) and repeat the same procedure.

You also need better lighting if possible as your pictures are quite dark.

 

[refurb]

Here are a few more pics. I could not get the LAZ and Mauser proof mark to come out in picture of barrel. On the underside of toggle assy, if you look close you will see a three dot stamp on right side. I belive this was a intial rejection mark. Also in the well area their is a small o or u slanted into the S that is stamp their. I have a run of the mill 41/byf that has all the same marks within the frame, breechblock, toggle assy,ect..Except that it has only the S in the well area. And no three dot marks anywhere. I hope this helps.

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[refurb]

Still trying to get used to the format here.

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[refurb]

Forgot one.

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[Edward Tinker]

Dow, you are doing good, I combined the other three postings into one for you.

Looks like a nice one, an these are interesting guns.

Ed

 

[refurb]

Ed,
Thanks for the incouragement. Although I'm new to the forum. You all can tell I love Lugers. And I can tell their is a wealth of knowledge here on this forum. Welcome Home!

 

[Dwight Gruber]

James,

The Kufstein supposition is interesting. It is similar to the Werkstatt Klett theory for Kl marked Lugers, that is, a subsidiary workshop assembling Lugers and having to apply their own identity stamp to comply with German liability law.

It is considerably countered by the observation that Kufstein--the city, in any case--is not spelled with a ü.

--Dwight

 

[lugerlou]

refurb

The last photo's are good, on your last photo is the main connecting pin stamped with the last two digits of the serial number.

Re the three dot stamp, this one usually represents the German equivalent of the American rockwell hardness test and not a rejection stamp.

 

[lugerlou]

Dwight

Thankyou for pointing that out, the ü and the letter u in the German language obviously have two different meanings.

At best who knows the exact meaning of the Kü marked luger but we will sure try to find out.

 

[refurb]

A better picture of the well marks. And the Ku (LAZ) mark on toggle.

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[refurb]

Here is the breechblock photo sorry.

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[refurb]

One more try on breechblock

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[Edward Tinker]

Dow, you can't have lettes like ( or ) as it messes up and won't show the pciture. Also try not to have spaces.

Ed