[lugercollector]

Here are some photos of various markings and proof marks on a recently acquired Vickers Ltd Luger...the grips are proofed and numbered to the gun.....the safety marking "RUST" is an appropriate description of the condition of some of the finish of this Luger....also,the toggle grips are smaller than with a normal Luger,and the quality of the workmanship does not compare to the German made Lugers....

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[Edward Tinker]

Still a nice rep piece Peter,

Ed

 

[taudelt]

Peter... Thanks for the show and tell. Somebody promises to bring one to me one of these days and it will be very helpful to be able to have something to compare it to.

 

[lugercollector]

My pleasure Gentlemen!!....if you would like to see photos of any particular part...let me know,and I will post them.......Cheers...

 

[Vlim]

Hi Peter,

Nice Vickers! I take it that by '1931' dated you mean a 1931 struck on the barrel top? Which wouldn't make any sense as the barrel bottom still shows the original barrel proofs...The Vickers contracts ran from 1920 - 1922, so this one is from that timeframe.

This pistol has had it's brass ID-plate removed at some time during it's history.

Pistol parts were simply shipped from DWM to Vickers, who did the assembly. Workmanship was so shoddy that most pistols were redirected by the Dutch Authorities to the FN plant in Liege, where they were reworked to ensure correct operability. Grips were produced locally in the Dutch colonies.

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Gerben,

I've seen mention of the FN connection for these pistols before. There's nothing in the English-language literature which talks about it, is there a European source for this info?

--Dwight

 

[Edward Tinker]

In "the Dutch Luger" it talks about how they were shipped over to Liege and finished / made to fit better.

Ed

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Ed,

I thought I went through that book pretty thoroughly, but don't recall the mention. Whereabouts is it?

--Dwight

 

[Edward Tinker]

Sorry Dwight, I am going by memory and I am in North Dakota! I could be wrong ~~ But I have read it in an english text book...

Ed

 

[Vlim]

Hi Dwight. John Walter's 'The Luger Story', if I remember correctly. 'The Dutch Luger' mentions the refurbishement and lack of quality of the Vickers but doesn't mention FN specifically.

DWM had a major financial interest in FN until after WW1, btw.

 

[Dwight Gruber]

The lack of a real authoritative source for the Vickers/FN connection has my curiosity very unsatisfied, and I have had a number of other questions about Dutch Lugers in the back of my mind, so I finally took the bit and mailed my questions to Martens & De Vries. I got a reply back from Bas Martens, and his comments were very informative.

He asserts that there is no source to confirm an FN involvement with Vickers Lugers. He does, however, suggest a reason for John Walter's supposition. In 1920 the Dutch East Indies Government ordered 5,830 revolvers from Vickers with which to arm their police forces. When they were ready for inspection in 1921, the guns were determined to be very badly made. Due to British labor strikes during that time these guns were sent to FN to be refurbished before they were delivered to the Indies in 1922. Walters could have made the Vickers/FN/date connection, and drawn a mistaken conclusion.

Heer Martens also had a thought which applies to the Luger in this discussion with the original British proofed barrel and 1931 date stamp. He (expressly very cautiously) suggests that the Dutch regulations are ambiguous enough to be read several ways, and it is his -opinion- that a barrel date stamp was required when a Dutch Luger entered service; officers' pistols were not required to be so marked. (This in addition to the rebarrel date.) His caution comes from the exceptions which always seem to crop up, and which could simply be attributted to marking or other errors by local armorers.

--Dwight

 

[lugercollector]

Further to this Luger....The Gentleman from whom I acquired it,has,in his possession, an original actual Vickers Ltd factory engineering Luger blueprint that was in the Vickers shop during that time period.....I hope to post pictures at some point in the next 2 months....