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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have been exploring the survival of VL&D Mauser m. 1910 pistols for a while now and I have generated a number of questions that you folks might help answer. (von Lengerke and Detmold, the NY/Chi high end sporting goods retailer of the early part of the 20th century)

We have a total off 29 survivals, of which 27 are documented. We also have a list of serial numbers of "Mauser" pistols sold by VL&D. These are not C96 pistols and Bob Beach, the gentleman who curated this data until recently, thought that the assumption that the data referred to the m. 1910 pistols was not unreasonable.

Be that as it may, not one of the documented pistols appears in the VL&D sales data (that we have at hand).

Now the reason for this as put forth by various folks (me too) is that because of the NYC Sullivan law, the records for all sales post 1911 were turned over to ... someone. Precisely who is unknown. The coppers, presumably.

So what follows from that is the remaining pistols in the VL&D sales records were sold pre 1911 (or close to it). However, a superficial examination of the data gives lie to this since the serials extend to the 1xxxxx range and these were made post 1911.

n.b. 5473 should be highlighted.



You with me?

Something is amiss. Clearly.

It is also very unclear how many pistols sold by VL&D were marked with their name. My personal belief is that a tiny fraction of the pistols sold by them were so marked inasmuch as they were part of a promotion by Mauser. Who really knows. Mario Baudino is keeping an eye open for relevant info that he may come across in the Mauser Archives.

Anyway, I would ask owners of m. 1910 (and even 1914 7.65mm) pistols to compare their serial numbers to the chart below and then tell me if there are any matches. A match indicates that the pistol in question was sold by VL&D.

Please either post here or PM me.

n.b. that the highlighted entries are VL&D marked and are NOT in the sales records. I added them for amusement.


Thank you.
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Bump

No one? Really?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Don't know if it helps, but Model 1910 production did not start until 1911.
Problem is that, supposedly, there are no VL&D sales figures 1911 onwards because of the enactment of the Sullivan law in NYC. Clearly that is not the case.

I have cited LaCroix who claimed production started in 1909 and he cited Weiss. What is the source of your date?
 

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The Mauser production and sales books. The Model 1910 is one of the best documented pistols when it comes to original factory documention. Weiss joined Mauser in 1930, so he may have missed some.

Check with Mauro, he can look it up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Dropped him a note. Thanks.
 

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I have a 1910 VL&D that I am sure you have the data on, but I’ll try to look tomorrow on my laptop, I’m traveling so if I forget, remind me Ed.
my good friend sold me his collection of 1910’s, they are cool. We had a good zoom call on them a month or so ago, which I enjoyed.

ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Would have loved to be there but Saturdays I am often at a local show. This is Florida, after all.

I'd suggest a VL&D Zoom except I fear that I'd be the only one there.
 

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Here's pics of 5473 which is on your list of VL&D guns but NOT marked red. I sent these when we messaged each other a week or two before you made this thread but maybe they got lost in the shuffle. Although you mention 29 guns not in the sales data and I only count 28 marked in red so maybe it's the 29th and mismarked on the chart. If not then it's the first one accounted for in the sales data, correct?
 

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I forget to drop my info, here it is
1463325 ACPEarly side latch. 95+% blue, VL&D inscribed on right side. Wood grips look new.

A zoom call of VL&D would be interesting, I literally know little about them :)
I could use some tips and hints on M1910's

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
View attachment 695984 View attachment 695986 View attachment 695985

Here's pics of 5473 which is on your list of VL&D guns but NOT marked red. I sent these when we messaged each other a week or two before you made this thread but maybe they got lost in the shuffle. Although you mention 29 guns not in the sales data and I only count 28 marked in red so maybe it's the 29th and mismarked on the chart. If not then it's the first one accounted for in the sales data, correct?
That would be correct, if true. Sadly, it is my mistake.

this question still vexes me. I will follow up at some point but, like the Landau list fiasco, the path is fraught with cul de sacs. The core, the nubbin of the problem is that everyone involved is dead. Coincidence? I leave it to you to judge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Incidentally, if anyone owns one of these and wants to sell it, PM me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I forget to drop my info, here it is
1463325 ACPEarly side latch. 95+% blue, VL&D inscribed on right side. Wood grips look new.

A zoom call of VL&D would be interesting, I literally know little about them :)
I could use some tips and hints on M1910's

Ed
Thank you.
 
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