Weimar police unit marked 1914 Mausers?
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1914 MAUSER, SN 256371, L.M.25., LANDJÄGEREI MÜNSTER WEAPON NR. 25
Ron, these photographs have been in my files for years and this was a good excuse to post them.
This 1914 Mauser, serial range 256371, was manufactured in about1922 and eventually routed to the Prussian State Landjägerei. The police unit mark signifies Landjägerei Münster, waffe Nr. 25. (Rural constabulary in the administrative district of Münster, weapon number 25). (see page 199-202, Axis Pistols)
These are not too common, but occasionally come up for sale. The Landjagerei marked Lugers are much more common than the Landjagerei marked Mauser 1914's.
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1900DWMRADOMHP451 020.jpg
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Figure 1. Left side, 1914 Mauser, serial number 256371. At the end of World War II in Europe, the Germans in occupied Norway, surrendered large numbers of weapons to the Norwegians, including this police Mauser 1914. The Norwegian Police cut a slot and stamped a Norwegian Police property number “POLITI, crest, Nr. 4713" on the slide and also on the frame “4713" These were used by the Norwegian Police.
(See page 138, "Mauser Pocket Pistols" by Pender)
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Figure 2. Right side, 1914 Mauser, serial number 256371.
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Figure 3. Front, 1914 Mauser, serial number 256371, showing the Landjagerei police unit mark.
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Figure 4. Details Prussian state Police unit stamp, L.M. 25 which signifies: Landjägerei Münster, waffe Nr. 25. (Rural constabulary in the administrative district of Münster, weapon number 25).
This link contains more information. Mauser 1914 S.N. 251373 eroane http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2914
Ron, these photographs have been in my files for years and this was a good excuse to post them.
This 1914 Mauser, serial range 256371, was manufactured in about1922 and eventually routed to the Prussian State Landjägerei. The police unit mark signifies Landjägerei Münster, waffe Nr. 25. (Rural constabulary in the administrative district of Münster, weapon number 25). (see page 199-202, Axis Pistols)
These are not too common, but occasionally come up for sale. The Landjagerei marked Lugers are much more common than the Landjagerei marked Mauser 1914's.
Download Attachment:
1900DWMRADOMHP451 020.jpg35.28 KB
Figure 1. Left side, 1914 Mauser, serial number 256371. At the end of World War II in Europe, the Germans in occupied Norway, surrendered large numbers of weapons to the Norwegians, including this police Mauser 1914. The Norwegian Police cut a slot and stamped a Norwegian Police property number “POLITI, crest, Nr. 4713" on the slide and also on the frame “4713" These were used by the Norwegian Police.
(See page 138, "Mauser Pocket Pistols" by Pender)
Download Attachment:
1900DWMRADOMHP452.jpg33.44 KB
Figure 2. Right side, 1914 Mauser, serial number 256371.
Download Attachment:
1900DWMRADOMHP453.jpg13.04 KB
Figure 3. Front, 1914 Mauser, serial number 256371, showing the Landjagerei police unit mark.
Download Attachment:
1900DWMRADOMHP454.jpg27.49 KB
Figure 4. Details Prussian state Police unit stamp, L.M. 25 which signifies: Landjägerei Münster, waffe Nr. 25. (Rural constabulary in the administrative district of Münster, weapon number 25).
This link contains more information. Mauser 1914 S.N. 251373 eroane http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2914
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Ron,
Of the 600 police unit marks in my database, 20% of them are on M1914 Mausers. There is a wide variety of marks, many dating from before the 1922 Prussian marking orders and a number of non-Prussian marks. There are about 25 with Landjägerei unit marks, constituting about 20% of the Landjägerei-marked pistols. IF this percentage is representative of the 1930 population of Landjägerei weapons, about 2,000 were in service with the rural constabulary at that time.
Jan,
Thanks very much for yet one more record for my database.
Of the 600 police unit marks in my database, 20% of them are on M1914 Mausers. There is a wide variety of marks, many dating from before the 1922 Prussian marking orders and a number of non-Prussian marks. There are about 25 with Landjägerei unit marks, constituting about 20% of the Landjägerei-marked pistols. IF this percentage is representative of the 1930 population of Landjägerei weapons, about 2,000 were in service with the rural constabulary at that time.
Jan,
Thanks very much for yet one more record for my database.
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I have been looking at Görtz. And am a bit confused. On page 93
L.S. is indicated as being an Air Surveillance unit. "Luft Sachsen", yet pg 103 would translate that L.S. is "Landjägerie Schneidemühl".
I would guess that since the weapon # is 189. An Air Surveillance unit would probably be fairly small, and may not have been issued 189 pistols, let alone that number of 1914s?
How do you distinguish one from the other? Is the key, the size of the letters and numbers, 4.2 mm as opposed to 4 mm? Is there any other method of determining the difference?
Don, you're welcome. And thanks for your assistance.
Thanks! Ron
L.S. is indicated as being an Air Surveillance unit. "Luft Sachsen", yet pg 103 would translate that L.S. is "Landjägerie Schneidemühl".
I would guess that since the weapon # is 189. An Air Surveillance unit would probably be fairly small, and may not have been issued 189 pistols, let alone that number of 1914s?
How do you distinguish one from the other? Is the key, the size of the letters and numbers, 4.2 mm as opposed to 4 mm? Is there any other method of determining the difference?
Don, you're welcome. And thanks for your assistance.
Thanks! Ron
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Ron,
From what I have read, the air surveillance units were frowned on by the Interallied Military Control Commission and did not last very long. Notice that these units are not mentioned in the 1932 marking orders (G&B, p.103) and the Ministry of Interior apparently had no hesitation in re-using the "L" designation for Landjaegerei. I suspect this means that they didn't anticipate any confusion since the 1922 orders had not been implemented for air surveillance units.
However, the real basis for my interpretation of these marks as Landjaegerei comes from seeing the 25 or so marked M1914s in my database. These marks correspond to 16 of the 33 Prussian administrative districts listed in the 1932 marking orders (except Berlin, which did not have rural police). Probably, the only reason all 33 are not represented is just sample size. Notice that the second letter in the 1922 orders (G&B, p.93) for air suveillance units is an abbreviation for a Prussian Province while the comparable letter in the 1932 orders stands for the city that was the headquarters of the associated administrative district. Except for a few cases (L.S. being one of them), the abbreviations are different and all of the marks in the database fit the 1932 orders.
I hope this helps. As I mentioned, I am working on an article about these Landjaegerei unit marks based on the information in my database and some other sources. Hopefully, it will help clarify some of this.
From what I have read, the air surveillance units were frowned on by the Interallied Military Control Commission and did not last very long. Notice that these units are not mentioned in the 1932 marking orders (G&B, p.103) and the Ministry of Interior apparently had no hesitation in re-using the "L" designation for Landjaegerei. I suspect this means that they didn't anticipate any confusion since the 1922 orders had not been implemented for air surveillance units.
However, the real basis for my interpretation of these marks as Landjaegerei comes from seeing the 25 or so marked M1914s in my database. These marks correspond to 16 of the 33 Prussian administrative districts listed in the 1932 marking orders (except Berlin, which did not have rural police). Probably, the only reason all 33 are not represented is just sample size. Notice that the second letter in the 1922 orders (G&B, p.93) for air suveillance units is an abbreviation for a Prussian Province while the comparable letter in the 1932 orders stands for the city that was the headquarters of the associated administrative district. Except for a few cases (L.S. being one of them), the abbreviations are different and all of the marks in the database fit the 1932 orders.
I hope this helps. As I mentioned, I am working on an article about these Landjaegerei unit marks based on the information in my database and some other sources. Hopefully, it will help clarify some of this.
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1914 Mauser with Landjägerei Unit Mark. Not as nice as Jan's, but a decent example none the less.
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Stamped with 1920 provisional date.
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Also has the number 15 stamped on the right side of the slide. If anyone knows what this may indicate, I would be happy to know. Possibly a rack number?
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The unit is Landjägerei Schneidemühl waffe Nr 189.
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The pebble grain holster dated 1917. In excellent condition. The maker mark is not very ledgible. Very hard to read.
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Ron
Download Attachment:
LS.jpg63.6 KB
Download Attachment:
RS.jpg73.52 KB
Stamped with 1920 provisional date.
Download Attachment:
LS marks.jpg72.28 KB
Also has the number 15 stamped on the right side of the slide. If anyone knows what this may indicate, I would be happy to know. Possibly a rack number?
Download Attachment:
RS marks.jpg75.49 KB
The unit is Landjägerei Schneidemühl waffe Nr 189.
Download Attachment:
unit mark.jpg46.47 KB
The pebble grain holster dated 1917. In excellent condition. The maker mark is not very ledgible. Very hard to read.
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Front Holster.jpg76.97 KB
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Back Holster.jpg89.8 KB
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Open fFap.jpg92.49 KB
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holster date.jpg176.78 KB
Ron
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Ron,
I just got back from my mother's funeral. There are 126 police-marked M1914 Mausers in my database. Thirty-six have Landjägerei marks and 18 have Schupo marks, so the ratio is 2:1 in favor of the Landjägerei. I'm told that my article on Landjägerei unit marks will be in the July Auto Mag. This will have more information on these pistols.
I just got back from my mother's funeral. There are 126 police-marked M1914 Mausers in my database. Thirty-six have Landjägerei marks and 18 have Schupo marks, so the ratio is 2:1 in favor of the Landjägerei. I'm told that my article on Landjägerei unit marks will be in the July Auto Mag. This will have more information on these pistols.
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Don, I am sorry to hear about your mother, no matter if expected or not, it is very difficult! My best to you sir,
Ed
Ed
Don,
For your data dase, I have SN 246028. It is marked: L.Sch.157.
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It is not very nice as it has a grey finish but is even........
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1920 Property mark on left slide
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These photos I did when I first got it. I cleaned it since hoping it would come up better........but still that same dull grey finish....
I came across this post almost by accident but I must say it's a very interesting one...as I dont know much about these little Mausers. Keep up the good work !!
MARC
For your data dase, I have SN 246028. It is marked: L.Sch.157.
Download Attachment:
DSCN4388.JPG13.92KB
It is not very nice as it has a grey finish but is even........
Download Attachment:
DSCN4389.JPG43.15KB
Download Attachment:
DSCN4390.JPG45.85KB
1920 Property mark on left slide
Download Attachment:
DSCN4386.JPG25.5KB
These photos I did when I first got it. I cleaned it since hoping it would come up better........but still that same dull grey finish....
I came across this post almost by accident but I must say it's a very interesting one...as I dont know much about these little Mausers. Keep up the good work !!
MARC
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3,519 Posts
Marc,
Thanks very much for the info on your M1914 Mauser. I will add it to my database. Quite a few Landjägerei pistols have surfaced since I submitted my article in April for publication.
One question: Are the characters in the unit mark really slanted as they appear in the photo or is it just the angle of the photo?
I'm working from memory here but I think your serial number indicates manufacture in about 1921/22. The Landjägerei acquired some in that time frame to add to their inventory of Imperial-era M1914s but did not mark them until 1929 or later when they acquired a large number of Lugers. Prior to 1929, the M1914 was the principal handgun of these police.
If you have access to past issues of Auto Mag, there were several articles about these pistols by John LaCroix. These are the most comprehensive discussion of the M1910 & M1914 Mausers I know of.
Thanks very much for the info on your M1914 Mauser. I will add it to my database. Quite a few Landjägerei pistols have surfaced since I submitted my article in April for publication.
One question: Are the characters in the unit mark really slanted as they appear in the photo or is it just the angle of the photo?
I'm working from memory here but I think your serial number indicates manufacture in about 1921/22. The Landjägerei acquired some in that time frame to add to their inventory of Imperial-era M1914s but did not mark them until 1929 or later when they acquired a large number of Lugers. Prior to 1929, the M1914 was the principal handgun of these police.
If you have access to past issues of Auto Mag, there were several articles about these pistols by John LaCroix. These are the most comprehensive discussion of the M1910 & M1914 Mausers I know of.
Hello Don,
Very interesting...Thanks much for the info. I had no idea this specific 1914 was made in the 1921 period.....Tought it was later.
The frontstrap markings are not slanted. I did a fast pic this afternoon...
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MARC
Very interesting...Thanks much for the info. I had no idea this specific 1914 was made in the 1921 period.....Tought it was later.
The frontstrap markings are not slanted. I did a fast pic this afternoon...
Download Attachment:
DSCN4525.JPG17.51KB
MARC
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