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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the reverse it is marked JBA over 1940. Below that is a symbol that has been X'd over. Below that is DDR NVD. Pictures are not to good. Thanks for any info. Bill

 

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sorry Bill, usually there are some guys who know these things... The DDR sounds more like the DDR for East Germany. Something about the holster doesn't look right to me, but I am no expert on these things...

Ed
 

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William,
* The deafening silence, I presume, is due to no one having seen a PT.08 so marked in such condition. I've certainly not seen one like this; but, there is a lot I haven't seen as well.
* The "jba/1940" is the easy part. What follows is my synthesis of a report in John Walter's, The Luger Book, Pg. 140(J5), Pg.283(w3), & Pg.286(W36). The "jba" is a WWII manufacturer's code for A. Wunderlich Nachfolger, Berlin-Neukölln. This company is reported to have made Luger holsters in 1913-1918 and again in 1933-1943. The factory moved from S-W Berlin to the S-E Neukölln suburb in 1937. By 1941 operations were described as 'Fabrik fur Heeres, Polizei, und Feuerwehr-aüsrustungen (maker of equipment for Army, Police, and the fire service)'. The factory was located on Finowstrasse 27 in Neukölln.
* The "1940" would be a date of manufacturing. Since a 3 letter code is used & the "P.08" mark is present, the holster bears characteristics suggesting production after mid year 1940.
* The "X'd out" mark may be the Waffen Inspector's eagle over WaA18 (1936-37). No other WaA number is indicated for Wunderlich.
* The "DDR NVD" marking is new to me on a WWII PT.08. Dieter Marshall, in his booklet on the Post WWII German Democratic Republic(GDR), does not list a "NVD" acronym to my knowledge. He does list the acronym "DDR" as the "Deutsche Democratische Republik"(GDR); ie, the former Soviet controlled East Germany. He also list "NVA" as the "Nationale Volksarmee"; ie, the National People's Armee of the GDR. Finally, an entry for "NVR-DDR" is given as the "Nationaler Verteidigungsrat der DDR"; ie the National Defense Counsel of the DDR. What relevance this bears to your holster's markings is purely suggestive on my part.
* Post war style P.38 holsters have been seen marked "A. Wunderlich/1963"; although, the Berlin Chamber of Commerce is adament trading ceased in 1945 for this firm after the Russians overran Berlin.
* Pictures usually beat a verbal/written description; but, the age of your PT.08 is difficult to tell from the digitals provided. The condition appears almost too fresh and the buckle's new appearance raises questions whether this holster is truely WWII vintage. Possibly a sharp pic of the marking(s), buckle and stitching would help us more positively ID this example.
* Otherwise...Hmmmmmmmmm....maybe someone else could hazard a guess or provide another coroborating example.
* Hope this helps
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
These are better. The buckle has a roller. The back is more soiled than the front. The X'd out eagle is not a WaA mark, but an eagle with wings spread, it's head turned right and something below it.




 

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Bill,

I read on your holster's backside DDR NVA, wich means, as Bob already mentioned 'Deutsche Demokratische Republik - Nationale Volks Armee'. This holster was used after WWII for the 'peoples army' of East Germany. The original sign under the eagle might have been the swastika (eagle/swastika), and that is probably why is has been wiped off.

There are also a lot of Luger holsters wich have been taken away by the red army after WWII, they were stocked somewhere in a depot in Russia, and we see them now coming on the market here in Europe. In almost all cases the eagle/marks have been wiped off rather roughly.

I never saw one like yours, with the 'XXX' stamped over the old acceptance mark. It is a very nice holster in a very good state. One should suppose that is was not used, neither by the German Army during WWII, nor by the DDR-NVA afterwards.

It is my personal opinion that in the near future the Lugers, holsters and tools that were 'altered, refurbished, upgraded, reblued, proofmarked' by the DDR will escape from the actual neglectance by our Luger collecting community. Regarding the history of the Lugers that went through WWI, the Weimar Republic (DWM, Simson, Krieghoff, BKIW), Mauser and after that played there role during WWII, it is just wonderfull that those old warhorses were allowed to survive for another (in some cases a fourth) live... And somehow it is not so different from what happened with the Lugers that survived WWI during the Weimar period. If we look back, we see four distinct political aera's: 1900 - 1918, 1919 - 1933, 1934 - 1945, and 1945 - 1989. As I said, some Lugers went through all four of them. That is amazing and very interesting.

You have a fine holster, and you should classify it as a WWII - DDR.

Best regards
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Joop, thank you very much for the information. I had no idea about the history of this holster. I don't collect lugers, or thier holsters. I do have one luger that came home with the father of a friend in my home town. This 1914 DWM German Luger has all matching numbers and two original magazines with the serial number on the base. It was brought back from Africa at the end of WWII by Major Edward E. Mcxxxxx who was Corp. of Engineer. He re enlisted in the air Force and retired as Lt. Col. He traded the gun to my brother in the 1950s while they were on one of their shooting outings. The gun was made for the Prussian Police Academy and is marked Inventory number 15. I assume it was called to military service in W.W.II. The Major cut a U.S. GI holster to fit the luger.
Again, thanks!

 

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This is out of my area, actually most things are, but I'd like for Jerry Burney to look at this holster and give his opinion. Or, some of the elder statesmen with more experience can provide some insight. The stitching on the rear just doesn't look right based on a show and tell, that Jerry did, that I'm going from memory on. I can't locate the thread. Anyway it had to do with the stitching going all the way across on the top and also just below the belt loops. The belt loop stitching also looks awry.
Tom
 

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I hate to be the henchman here, but from what I have learned from Jerry Burney. I think this holster is a boosted reproduction.

The pull strap is stitched in the wrong place. It should be attached with an extension of the stitching on the bottom of the left belt loop.(arrow) And the stitching across the top does'nt look right.

I believe this is a labor and cost expendient copy.


Ron

Download Attachment: untitled.jpg
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See photo of original below. Note the different stitching pattern acroos the top of the back panel.



Download Attachment: randys.jpg
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Hey watch it! I'm a sensitive guy.;)

Tom you're correct. I deleted that part. I'm an Imperial and Weimar collector. I got corn-fused. I don't go for that Mauser repro stuff.:) Anyway, that's my take on it. I hate telling anyone stuff like this, but that's why were're here. To keep the inexperienced members from getting duped by the belly-crawlers. How the heck are ya? Glad to see ya made it back to Indianer OK.
Ron
 
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