[Guest]

I recently received this gun from my Father in law. I have no real desire to sell it but I would be curious as to it's basic value. It is a 1936 Krieghoff Suhl 9mm Luger. Serial # 6208 on left side, trigger guard, and barrel. Also at the barrel site is 833 and one of those engraved "birds" with a 2 under it. There are also three / four of these markings on the right side of the gun.

On top of the slide is an anchor with the letters H & K and Krieghoff Suhl.

The gun also has a holster dated 1936 with K. Voegels Kold-Deuts. There is something befor the K. Voegels but I can not make it out. There is also one of those markings with WaA387 below it. The breakdown tool is in a ittle pouch inside the holster and it has an S/42 marking.

The gun and markings look like those in this picture http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/lugerpa/lukrieg.HTM

I have attempted to take some pics of my gun and I hope they help.

Have I found some secret one of a kind gun that will make me rich and famous ? Or it it just a nice gun that will be a good historic thing to have around the house?

Thanks for any input.

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[Olefogey]

I'm not an expert on Krieghofs, but any Krieghof is nice to have around the house!! Nice holster also!!. It should have considerable value. The tool with the s/42 is a Mauser code tool. I'm sure one of the other members will ask for more pictures to determine value. From your one picture, the gun seems to be in great condition. Does the mag number match??

Dave

 

[Edward Tinker]

Tom, Kriegs are unto a hobby itself and are very expensive (more than $3K each), more than the average luger, but as most things, all depends on originality, condition, all matching parts etc.

Ed

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies.

The mag number does not match unfortunately. The mag number is 4921. I suspect that the gun was of course used and magazines were used, tossed, replaced as was the breakdown tool. If the gun could only tell it's own story.

The gun appears to be in very good condition with just some minor oxidation and wear for a gun that is almost 70 years old. I took it apart this afternoon and cleaned it up a bit. Was careful and everything went back the way it should.

And one minor correction. The number on the barrel is 883, not 833.

So one other question regarding the breakdown tool. I hear it called a breakdown or loading tool. I can understand a tool being required for helping the assembly/dissasembly. Other than as a screw driver how is it actually used ? What / how is the tool used in loading ?

 

[taudelt]

Wildtoad........ Welcome to the Forum. You have a very nice Luger. Krieghoff made only about 2,900 with the 1936 date. If you are going to keep the gun you should really consider buying a book called KRIEGHOFF PARABELLUM by Randall Gibson. It is the recognized "Bible" on Krieghoffs. The total production of the military guns went to the Luftwaffe and the estimate is that they only produced about 12,200 between 1935 and 1945. It is the maker that everybody would love to have. More close up pictures would sure help refine the value.

 

[Pete E.]

Tom,

Without seeing more photos of your HK '1936" luger, I would guess a price value range of $ 3600 - 4500...higher if the finish/condition is a strong 98% or higher...

Cannot be certain from the one photo, but your 1936 HK shoud either have fine checkered plastic grips (brown, Ritzmann type) or coarse checkered plastic grips (brown). It is rare to see a 1936 with wooden grips. HK wooden grips have their own unique checkering pattern with little flat diamonds. Your wooden grips, from your photo, do not appear to be that type. Ritzmann HK grips come up for sale from time to time. I sold a pair earlier this year for $ 250 and I have seen them go as high as $ 325 in the past year at gun shows. You might consider picking up a pair of brown plastic HK grips for your family luger.

I have attached a photo of Ritzmann grips (off my S-code HK luger) and a photo of member John Dunkle's HK wooden grips...so you know what to look for :

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If your holster is HK-proofed (inside the holster, on the back panel just below the closure flap hinge), that puppy could go $ 600-700 or higher...looks like real nice leather. Still probably worth in the $ 350-400 price range as it appears to be in excellent shape. Congratulations...!!!

p.s. A loading/take-down tool is used as a screw driver as you mentioned to remove the grip screws and also the firing pin assembly from the breechblock. Some guys use then to help a stubborn take-down lever from intially moving...but that tends to mar up the gun's finish around the TD lever.

The hole in the center of the TD tool is placed on the magazine follower "button" to help push it down while loading rounds. Takes the stress and wear/tear off of ones thumb...

Your take-down tool is not HK-proofed from what you describe.

p.s.s. I suspect you will be getting lots of offers to buy from some of the GunBoard members...

 

[Guest]

Again thanks, and from the replies, I have something worth keeping. The grips are infact wood. The inside of the left side grip has a number (1432) and some kind of small stamping with what looks like the number 656. The right side grip has the same number (1432)plus an "S", a more visible stamping with what looks like 656 below it, and a small number 42 stamped in the wood.

Oh, and the grips have a diamond pattern. Just like John's.

I do not see anything on the inside of the holster, but it is in great shape. I hope I'm in this good of shape when I'm that old.

Thanks for all replies.

 

[Pete E.]

Hi Tom,

Sounds like your wooden grips came off of a Mauser WWII luger...more than liekly not HK wooden grips. The Mauser stamping would be "655"...

 

[Guest]

You may be correct. Upon closer look, the number is 655. So this may mean that somwehere in this gun's past the grips were replaced?

 

[taudelt]

Wildtoad.... Yes, the grips were replaced someplace along the way. The 655 code wood grips you have would have come from a Mauser Luger made sometime after 1939 which is when they first started using that code. Your HK came from the factory with brown plastic grips as discussed above.

Question on the mag. Does it have an acceptance stamp on the bottom like the ones on the right hand side of the receiver??? A picture of the bottom of the mag would also be helpful.

Ya got a GOODIE.......

 

[Guest]

I'll try to get some more pics. But the mag has both a lower case script i and one of the stamps. Thanks for your post.

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[taudelt]

Tom.... I would tell you that the mag is not a HK. It is most likely from a WW2 Mauser but I really could not make out the acceptance stamp. HK mags do not have a letter suffix and the acceptance stamp is above the serial number.

 

[Guest]

It's hard for me to make out and I have it here in front of me! But after getting a magnafying glass, the stamp is bird with the number 63 stampled below it. Tom

 

[John D]

Hi Tom,

Congrats on your HK!!!! As you probably know - "1936" Krieghoffs were one of the larger production runs - but, by "larger", any HK volumes are miniscule as compared to Mauser, DWM, Erfurt, etc. - so HK's are treasured collector items regardless of the variation. About your "fame and fortune"? Well - not sure there, but..

As background, Mr. Gibson notes that for "1936" chamber marked HKs the total production of 2,900 pieces.

Also - I believe Pete and Dave are correct regarding your grips and magazine. Pete took the liberty of posting a pair of my grips from one of my earlier produced HKs (thanks, Pete) and the differences are apparent. Your's would correct with the course checkered brown plastic grips then either wood grips and/or RITZMANN grips (fine checkered) - but both have been noted on "1936" HKs. I believe wood grips are replacements, however.

A couple of other observations. On your HK, the grip screws do not appear to have any fire-blued cast, but I can't tell if that's the lighting in the photo or the actual hue of them. As well - both my "1936" & "1937" show a weaker cast, but the fire-blue is still able to be seen. Also, could you remove the side plate and tell us the markings there? It should appear something like this (but different digets):

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Tom - again - congrats on a nice HK!!! Keep those pictures coming!!!

John D.

 

[Guest]

OK. I took the side plate off, and did not find any markings on the inside of the plate other than what looks like a directional arrow (?). I did however see an 08 on the outside of the plate. The number would be covered up by the release lever. The 08 is the same number that is on the trigger.

The screws have a lot of age to them of course and are rusty. There may some blue in there somewhere, but then again ..

 

[John D]

Hey Tom,

Could that "directional arrow" be a "7" which is stamped with the baseline at about 45 degrees (not to lead you with an answer of course!!! ). I'd really like to see a picture of the inside/outside of the plate..!!!

As for the screws - I know what you mean about the blue being there somewhere. Sometimes - they are very difficult to find remaining traces of any color..!!

Best to you!

John D.

 

[taudelt]

Tom....... I would suggest that the mag was originally issued with a 1938 S/42 (Mauser) if in fact it is an "i" and the body of the mag is blue as it appears in your picture.

 

[Guest]

John,

After a liberal dose of Naval jelly, the marking was indeed a 7, not an arrow. I'll post some pics.

Dave, the letter on the mag is a script lower case i, but the mag itself is just shiny (well rusted) metal.

Thanks for all info.

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[John D]

Hi Tom,

Ummm - I think you caused my pacemaker to short-circuit for a moment, as I felt a tad feint... Please, please, please - don't use Naval Jelly on your HK!! Ummm - I have no idea what the effects are of it, as I've never used it on a firearm - probably because I'd never thought to, but - I'm begging you here, please...

OK - back on subject - yes, as I suspected, it is the "7" which is found sporadically in certain serial ranges.

Also - I appreciate the pictures for another reason, as I've seen several sideplates such as yours, which appear to be a transition from externally placing 2-digets (Early Military) to the later style (last two digits of the serial # inside the sideplate). The placement of the numerals on yours (forward tang under the locking bolt) are consistent as well.

Finally - I can't really tell from your photo, but you may find an LWaA first acceptance stage 1 (early) mark there as well (please - NO NAVAL JELLY in searching for it!! )

Hope this helps!

John D.

 

[taudelt]

Tom...... If the mag is nickle plated rather than blued and the 63 has an eagle above it where the wings droop downwards then I would tell you it is from a 1936 S/42. The "i" was used in both years and the difference is in the color of the body of the mag and the acceptance stamp. The eagle over the 63 on the 1938 version would have wings that are straight or horizontal.