[RockinWR]

* Since we have a decidedly Bavarian focus this week, does anyone have an ID name for a WWI leather maker using the neumonics "HK O". Please see the attached thread query for further insight.

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lugerforum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000450

* As a companion question, is the AutoMag info posted for the "Crown/I", "Crown/II", and "Crown/III" meaning generally accepted as the correct explanation. Is this supported by original documentation for actual Bavarian Corp formations and headquarter locations?

* Your comments/insights, as always, are appreciated!

 

[keoki7]

Bob, I have always thought the three corps areas were correct. I don't think I have ever seen the crown/numeral marking used prior to 1917. Most commonly on 1918 dated holsters.

 

[Jan C Still]

RockinWR
I do not know of any documents concerning the Crown (Bavarian) I, II, or III. Collectors generally agree that the Crown (Bavarian) I, II, or III signifies the corresponding Bavarian Army Corps (these holsters are almost all dated 1918 or undated). There were three Bavarian Army Corps Districts (I, II, III). The range of numbers (under the crown) found on the holsters, I-III reflects the range of Bavarian Army Corps Districts (I-III) and lends credibility to the theory that the Crown/number indicates the Bavarian Army Corps District.

However, I have examined a few that had the mark sewn under a belt loop (all original, not a rework). These were clearly marked prior to holster manufacture. This might suggests that the stamp may signify some sort of leather inspection. Also, Costanzo (page 188) states that these signify a “Weimar Military Police holster proof” with the numbers signifying the area of police authority. Several years a holster was sold on E-Bay that had both a BA stamp and Crown stamp. It appeared in the E-Bay photographs that the BA stamp number did not match the Crown stamp number.

After all that, I am still of the opinion that the Crown stamp may signify the Bavarian Army Corps but this identification is not certain.

Jan

 

[keoki7]

Jan and Bob, I would think that crown/roman numeral stamp is unlikely a Weimar stamp as the panty-waist Weimar republicans made the removal of all vestiges of the "Kaiserzeit" top priority. It even went to the point that veteran officers had to cut the crowns off their Pickelhaube Wappen.

I find the whole system of clothing depots (Bekleidungsamt) a bit of a mystery. Supposedly the BA marks indicated a specific corps distribution center. One would expect anything so marked to have been issued to a unit that was a part of that corps. Some equipment I have leads me to believe that the Bekleidungsamt were more responsible for recieving and approving all equipment manufactured within the geographic area of their responsibility. These goods might then be transferred to another corps' area for issue.

I would be very interested in your thoughts on this matter.

 

[Guest_V]

Geo,

click here: http://www.das-koppelschloss.de/bekleidungsaemter.htm
for a list of the BA marks and the general organisational setup.

I hope that it´ll explain the general setup.

Patrick

 

[RockinWR]

Jan and George,
* Thank You for your posts and the related comments in:
http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3133
* Agree the Crown is unlikely Weimar. Mr.D.B. makes the same point in his AutoMag article cited in this post's initial URL reference.
* I'm inclined to think the C/I, C/II, or C/III is a Baravian leather allocation/holster acceptance too. Equivalent to the LZA/LZSt markings we see on other WWI holsters. This allocation/inspection scenario probably explains Jan's observation of the Crown stamp appearing underneath sown belt loops.
* Closest tangential documentation I've come across is the Cates/Krause AutoMag article in Vol. XXXII(8/99), Pgs.114-116. The 1912 map of Germany, showing the Imperial Army Corp districts, is directly supportive to the Bavarian Crown interpretaion advanced here-in.
* In the mean time, I guess our "HK O" maker's name still remains a mystery.

 

[Jan C Still]

RockinWR
"the AutoMag info posted for the "Crown/I", "Crown/II", and "Crown/III" meaning generally accepted" Please post a specific reference to the AUTO MAG, (Year, Volume, and page)so it can be found and read.
Thanks
Jan

Found the link "Auto Mag article surfaced in Vol. XXX, Pg. 243"