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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The following Nazi codes and years have been recorded on standard German breakaway Hi-Power holsters:


Code Date Manufacturer Waffenamt </u>

(None) 1941 - E.G. Leuner GmbH, Bautzen - Eagle/WaA 159

"bdr" 41,43 - Richard Ehrhardt, Lederwarenfabrik - Eagle/WaA 136

"bdt" 41 - Salewa Lederwarenfabrik GmbH - Eagle/WaA 136

"bdt" 43, 44 - Salewa Lederwarenfabrik GmbH - Eagle/WaA 927

"bnz" 1944 - Steyr-Daimler-Puch, Werk-Steyr - ('Radom' style holster) - Eagle/WaA 99

"cgn" 41 - Rohrbacher Lederfabrik, Joseph Poeschl's Sohne - Eagle/WaA 47

"cgn" 42, 43, 44 - Rohrbacher Lederfabrik, Joseph Poeschl's Sohne - Eagle/WaA 920

"cgn" 4 - Rohrbacher Lederfabrik, Joseph Poeschl's Sohne - Eagle/WaA 920

"clg" 43, 44 - Ernst Melzig, Lederwaren, Liegnitz - Eagle/WaA B66

"clg" 44 - Ernst Melzig, Lederwaren, Liegnitz - Eagle/WaA 848

"clg" 4 - Ernst Melzig, Lederwaren, Liegnitz (None)

"dla" 41, 43, 44 - Kark Barth, Militareffekten-Fabrik - Eagle/WaA 195

"dta" 41 - A. Waldhausen, Inh. M. Bruchmann, Sattler u. Kofferfabrik, Koln - Eagle/WaA 195

"dvr" 42 - Johann Frohlich, Koffer-und Lederwarenfabrik - Eagle/WaA 920

"emj" 42 - Adalbert Fischer, Fabriken fur Militarausrustungen, Berlin - Eagle/WaA 14

"epf" 1942 - Koenigs u. Bismarckhutte AG, Schweintochlo-Witz - Eagle/WaA 195

"ftc" 1941, 1942 - Frost & Jahnel, Breslau - Eagle/WaA 182

"grz" 1941 - Gebruder Kruger Lederwarenfabrik & Lederfarberei, Breslau - Eagle/WaA 182

"hlv" 43, 4 - Maury & Co., Lederwarenfabrik, Offanbach - Eagle/WaA 668 and Eagle/WaA 653

"jkh" 43, 44 - Carl Busse, Fabrik fur Heeresausrustungen aus Stoff und Leder - Eagle/WaA 286

"jkh" 41, 42, 43 - Carl Busse, Mainz (Pebble Grain) - Eagle/WaA 286

"jkh" 4 - Carl Busse, Mainz (Pebble Grain) - Eagle/WaA 286

"jor" 41 - Anton Muzik, Sattlerwaren, Wein - Eagle/WaA 920

"jsd" 1941 - Gustav Reinhardt Lederwarenfabrik, Berlin-Sudwest - Eagle/WaA 14

"lyo" 1944 - Kromolowski & Sohne Lederwarenfabrik, Radom (Poland) - Eagle/WaA 77

"nka" 43 - J.J. Schlayer AG, Lederfabrik, Reutlingen - Eagle/WaA 101

======================================================================

NOTE: If you have observed any that are not on the above list, please let me know.




Charlie
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Sorry above the codes, etc. I had them arranged in nice neat columns under the headings 1) Code, 2) Date, 3) Manufacturer, and 4) Waffenamt.

After I pushed the 'post' button, all this changed. But the informatrion is all there, just not neatly arranged.

Charlie
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Also to be considered with the codes, etc is the following information:

Smooth brown leather was the primary material used for the breakaway Hi-Power holsters. Some holsters, however, have a pebble grain finish. (Some, mistakenly, have called this pigskin. ) German WWII holsters will be found both in black and brown color, but brown is relatively more common.

Normally the location of the codes, date and WaA marking is on the outside of the small breakaway flap. In some instances the markings are located on the rear of the holster, and markings are even sometimes located on the inside of the flap, either as ink stamp or embossed into the leather, and these usually tend to be very faint.

Charlie
 

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I can add the following. David Franchi

clg 43...no WaA

dta 43...WaA195

epf 1941...WaA195

WaA182...no date, no code

hlv 4 ...WaA668

jkh 43...no WaA
jkh 4 ...no WaA
 

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Code listing for High power breakaway holster

Charlie,

I just purchased a HP35 holster --- dta 42 with WaA195....

riche
 

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Charlie,

We need for Ed to make this a sticky. That's very impressive, I love HPs and didn't know that there were that many holster variations.

I guess I'd never really thought about it.

Thanks...
Ron
 

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Charlie,
Could you please post some photos of an example of what these Hi Power holsters look like. Thanks,

Tom
 

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Charlie,

We need for Ed to make this a sticky. That's very impressive, I love HPs and didn't know that there were that many holster variations.

I guess I'd never really thought about it.

Thanks...
Ron
DONE, did not know this was here...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The original list has been corrupted a little as there are symbols in he listings that should not be there.

I have an excel chart whch lista certain features of the holsters but it does not transfer at all.

The list was made from my obversations over the years wih gaps filled in by Bill Drollinger.

I have a number (but not all) of the holsters on the list. I do know I have pictures of 12 of the codes on a bck up drive as I prepared a handout sheet (Word Perfect) a few years ago. I will look for them.

Also, on another thread recently I posted the rarity of the early German Hi Power holsters, but with no pictures. I can transfer that info here. Now if I post pictures of these holsters, then you will know what to look for - thereby depriving me of them :) (Joke)

But, I would rather you know what they are and get them instead of their ending up in the garbage - which could very easily happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Pictures of some of the markings on the standard Hi Power holsters
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
The order of rarity of Hi-Power holsters is
(from the rarest to the most common)

1 - The luftwaffe marked holsters
3 - The holsters made from French revolver holsters and the holsters made from the Belgian combo holsters.

Note - the above do not look like the Hi-Power holster which most people think of. In fact the norml holster was adopteed in 1941 - most likely the latter part of 1941. The above holsters were made before that.

1 - The holsters made by Larsen
4 - The Radom holsters which were made for the Hi-Power (magzine pouch was bigger)

Note - the above do not look like the Hi-Power holster which most people think of. The Larsen holster was made in 1941 and might have overlaped the standard holster. The Radom style holsters have various dates.


The first holster shown is either a commercial holster or a police holster. The holster was made by Larsen who was a main maker of police holsters. This ersatz holster was made in 1941. The feeling is that it is commercial since there are no legitmiate Hi-Powers known with police markings.


The second holster is the one made from the Belgian combo holster. As you know, the Belgian combo holster carried both the Hi-Power and the stock. There were two compartments, the rear one for the stock and the front one for the Hi Power. (All those Hi-Powers and very little to put them in.)

The Germans removed the portion that held the pistol. By doing so, there was no back to this portion so one had to be added. There are differences in the backs as the saddlers used what was available. Needless to say, when the standard holster became available, the odds were that this holster was discarded in favor of the new one.

(The combo holster from which the above was derived is also shown.)

The next holster is the one that was converted for Hi Power use from French revolver holsters.

The next set of holsters were used by the Luftwaffe. Seems like after Belgium fell, there were a lot of Hi Powers sitting around in Weapon rooms that had not been issued. Plus there were those still in the factory. The Hi Powers in the 44, 45, 46 and 47 thousand range were in the factory.

The Belgian military used three markings. The progression can be followed - the first group was missing one of the three markings, another group was missing two of the three markings, the third group was missing all three maarkings. (The latter are very few.) In the high 43 thousand range, there are a few with one of the markings missing.

Even with these, there were other Hi Powers that had all three Belgian military markings but had not been issued to the individuals soldiers.

The Luftwaffe, having special favor, went into the Belgian weapons depot/storage and took a block of these pistols. How many they took is unknown. There are three known examples with a serial number spread of about 100 numbers. So did the take just one Hundred, did they take more, or did they take less. Hard to say ------- But they needed holsters for those they took. In 1940 there was not holster . The German holster with which we are familiar was adopted, in 1941, probably late in the year.

The known examples of these pistols were issued to the Luftwaffe Schule. So what did they do for a holster?

The Luftwaffe Schule had its own holster designed. In fact, there were two holsters designed and used and two different Luftwaffe Schule markings were used. I am not sure which of the two Luftwaffe holsters came first or whether they were made at the same time. But they were made before the standard holster was adopted in the latter part of 1941.





More to be added --------------------------
 

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Photos of an "nka" 43 J.J. Schlayer AG, Lederfabrik, Reutlingen Eagle/WaA 101 Hi Power holster. The "nka" 43 is under the strap, and not visible in the normal position.
 

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This holster came with a 1944 produced Hi-Power that I purchased. It came with both WaA140 proofed magazines, it was about as complete as I had seen with the gun at 85% but well worn holster. Any idea where the WaA195 might be stamped, on inspection I didn't see anything right off but wasn't sure where it might be proofed at.
 

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Art asked if this info could be consolidated, so he did and I have it pdf so it can't easily be changed.

the other two are from Charlie and I have locked them for the same reason.


ed
 

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All,

Does anyone know what German military units or organizations wore black HP holsters? Brown holsters? I assume that the holster was color-coordinated with pistol belt and other leather accessories which depended on the uniform worn.

Thanks!
 

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The color of leather seems to have varied by branch, rank and time. The Heer used brown leather pre-war and switched to black for EM and NCOs, officially changing officers to black, as well, in 1943, when brown leather was to be darkened. The Luftwaffe used light brown leather for officers and dark brown for EM & NCOs, although ground troops tended to use black. (Bender's Luftwaffe Vol. 1, p. 212 states, Wear of pistols was prescribed as, " ... officers were permitted to wear the pistol on the brown belt, and senior NCOs on the black belt". The Waffen-SS and Police used both brown and black leather. There are no hard and fast rules for leather color.
 
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