[johnboy]

If you pulled the overall percentage of matching HK mags from the HK list, you would be working with adulterated data. MANY HK matching mags are said to be matching because the number on the mag bottom matches the number on the frame.

Maybe a better way to describe all of this would be to look for 'original' magazines. So many of today's mags are actually 'matching', because someone scrubbed and stamped a new number.

'Original' mags are easy to spot. They are not compromised in any way.

Scrubbed and stamped 'matching' mags are easy to spot. They look like contraband crap.

Look for the percentage of 'original' mags. It will be a far lower percentage than 'matching' mags

Seeing what has been passed in sales as 'matching' over the years, my guess is less than 15% of HK mags are actually 'original'.

The problem is that people doing this aren't scrubbing original bases anymore they are using new blanks and stamping them. Take PIA for example their old stuff, scrubbed. The current stuff obviously new bases. They even took a pic (accidentally) of a blank base with one of their simson's before it was numbered.

 

[johnboy]

Whoopsie

 

[1933 FORD NUT]

One example of a questionable pair

Bought this gun in 1995 [ type 2 1940] and returned it as it had issues.
Had no matching mags when I had it for 2 days.
Note they do not match each other.
Mid 90's was ripe time for fake mags.
Believe cover story was a huge stash of HK mags was found in Norway?
Note center casting seam on left one.
Note "E2's" are wrong side up for serial range.

Do not agree only 15% of HK mags are good but there are for sure plenty fakes .
As already stated by Martin fakes are fairly easy to spot.
Just like fake guns themselves.

 

[1933 FORD NUT]

Forgot to add quote by Johnboy about why so many mags do not match.

One possibility could have to do with surrendering units and piling un-loaded guns.
Who has not seen piles of weapons and ammo separate.

Pretty sure MP 40 collectors deal with uppers and lowers scrambled due to this?

 

[mhassoun]

… so, so far it looks like the general (not everyone) opinion is that the honest 1 mag matching war Mausers in the states would apply to somewhere between 5% and 10% of those guns. For HKs it looks like the 15% to 20% is reasonable. And my theory (based also on the generally nice condition of HKs compared to Mausers) that hinted at WWII HKs did not see as much of the battle is not too far fetched.😂

 

[Rich]

Forgot to add quote by Johnboy about why so many mags do not match.

One possibility could have to do with surrendering units and piling un-loaded guns.
Who has not seen piles of weapons and ammo separate.

Pretty sure MP 40 collectors deal with uppers and lowers scrambled due to this?

I knew a veteran from WWII European theater, now passed. He described "deactivating" captured rifles by removing the bolts and throwing bolts in a pile and throwing rifles in another pile. A rifle without a bolt isn't much use. I imagine a similar treatment with pistols where magazines were separated from pistols was likely. A pistol with a matching magazine could very well have been captured or picked up on the battlefield. I'm guessing the majority of weapons turned in at the end of the war (also the majority of weapons brought back) were subjected to the quick and easy "deactivation" of having bolts removed from rifles and magazines from the pistols.

 

[1933 FORD NUT]

To clarify my mag reference was HK mags in general.
Not how many match guns .

I dought that honest matching gun-mag combos top 10% and may very well be less

 

[Batty67]

To be blunt, given records of wound types cataloged on both sides, the vast majority of pistols issued to Army and Luftwaffe were probably never fired "in earnest" (i.e., combat). Of these. I'd tend to say in a general way that Luftwaffe P.08s are probably even less likely to have been used in combat. WWII-era police, and SS personnel working in extermination units and in concentration camps, would be far more likely to "use" their pistols.

 

[jps-s]

I have always wondered what percentage of the Krieghoff Lugers have been restored and have doctored magazines. JIM

 

[mhassoun]

When a P08 magazine is kept fully loaded for extended period of time its spring constant drops and that may lead to misfeeds when the Luger is fired. I wonder if such cases have been documented in the field. And if this was a frequent problem then it would not be surprising for soldiers to replace a magazine with another one having a stiffer spring. Thoughts?

 

[johnboy]

Pile of lugers and pile of mags makes more sense. The "long term loaded mag weakens the spring" is an urban myth.

 

[mhassoun]

U

Pile of lugers and pile of mags makes more sense. The "long term loaded mag weakens the spring" is an urban myth.

“Urban Myth”?!
Here is the science behind it👇

https://idcspring.com/spring-lose-tension-when-compressed/

 

[johnboy]

That's what I said, myth, with regard to loaded mags anyway. Science....lol. Springs under tension may weaken but it takes a looong time. My EDC has had a loaded mag in it for 5 years. And 2 spares. Runs like a top. The gun I carried before the swap stayed loaded for 12 years. Zero problems, still runs on the mag in it. I have friends in LE that have carried service pistols over 20years without a mag change. I have my grandads 1911 he carried in his belt, loaded, from 1917 until he died in '59 it still runs on the WW1 mag it came with.

I doubt nazi soldiers were swapping "weak" mags with each other (which solves nothing) For the sake of discussion if a magazine spring would weaken that rapidly wouldn't the armorers have been changing out springs with a better version? Why are all these 75 to 100 year old luger mags still operable? Why aren't the mainsprings all mush?

 

[johnboy]

It's a snow day here, so I'm prepared to argue minutia 😁

 

[mhassoun]

It's a snow day here, so I'm prepared to argue minutia 😁

Maybe we should hear from members who shoot their Luger(s) regularly and see if replacing aging mag spring with stiffer springs have solved their misfeed problem.

 

[WLyon]

After 50= + years of luger collecting I have seen limited numbers with matching mags and much much less with two matching mags. Now switch to today. There are matching mags all over the place. Miust have been hidden in my day. Damn. Bill

 

[Jason S L]

After 50= + years of luger collecting I have seen limited numbers with matching mags and much much less with two matching mags. Now switch to today. There are matching mags all over the place. Miust have been hidden in my day. Damn. Bill

I am fortunate, I have three Luger rigs with two matching mags 😉, not easy . I also have two Lugers with the same serial number 🤔