My only comment is to the amount of detail in the description of the LP08. I have about 50 "capture papers" in my collection and none have that type of description.

G2

 

Capture Papers were all issued after the war to replacement troops that purchased their War Souvenirs at Temp PXs. This was to control weapons going back to the U.S. During the war most captured weapons and souvenirs were taken to the nearest APO and mailed home........ Henri.........

 

Never say" never", never say "all"; it is just is not correct that all papers were issued to replacement troops!

 

Have seen lots of capture papers but none with a matching description. I doubt if anyone knew or cared about matching parts at that time. We had thousands of troops in 1945 who were not replacements. Many were issued capture papers prior to being shipped home. Bill

 

Yes,
pretty strange. But I think we have kicked around the "value" of capture/bring back papers and opinions offered were from 0$ to more$.

Buy the pistol, not the story; the 1918 Artillery is a very scarce variety with the adjustable front sight. So I bought it.

I think the papers have been "enhanced", but will know more when I see them in person. I don't like the darker ink in some lines, and it looks like several items were added in this darker ink. The "flying" helmet is suspicious to me; just too much info!
Of course the guy that brought them back was an Lt., so who knows?

 

It looks ok to me? The 4 light type lines were done first. Then the other darker lines were added later, but from the same typewriter or with same font. The gun itself was the lighter type so maybe ok.

 

You may be correct, here is the picture so when the auction link dies, everyone will know what we were looking at.

 

"Captured from Germans" or not I am skeptical a U.S. bayonet would meet the definition of "war trophy".

 

American arms were not supposed be brought back in Vietnam and I would presume World War II also so by saying it was captured from a German then there would be no question, but that’s just assumption on my part

 

One of the capture papers I've seen listed a S&W 1917 listed as "captured". I believe this was indicated to show it was not US property.

G2

 

Unless the person on the paper was a collector... But that was not impossible. Most paper did not have parts # details, due to most were not collectors. If he was a collector, he knew matching Luger being collectible, so more details. Not impossible.

 

If many papers had details, that would be very abnormal. But only one out of N? It could be real.

 

If real, the Lieutnant was clearly a souvenir hunter from day one. Just look at the items listed: a lot who would bring back an uniform and had it in his capture paper? From my limited experience most of veterans looked for guns, watches, optical stuff, blades. But I had seen a telemeter with capture paper too. Who knows.

 

Hi, I don't think that in the "olden" days people looked at matching numbers as being of much value. I believe that this is "iffy" but as 03 man says "buy the pistol not the story", regards, Mike

 

Old days,,,, in old days, collectors are like today's new collectors -- they might not know original finish being an important value point, but many of them did know matching number items being more attractive... The reason is unclear. Let's say, to tell original finish needs experience and domain expertise, but to tell matching number usually does not need that, it's very intuitive.

If this paper had typed "original", it's definitely a fake. But no. It does not address anything in that direction.

 

Check out the dates on "Capture Papers" I have never witnessed one dated before the war ended!!!!! Henri.......

 

I have; but agree many are dated after April 1945- of course that is when guys were rotating home- i.e. After the war ended!!!!!

 

My Uncle went through Germany and then the Battle of the Bulge. He brought home a 98 Mauser with capture papers. I would hardly call him a after the war replacement.

 

I do not follow capture papers much...

1. Google search for "WWI capture papers" do yield photo examples and some dated before the end of WWII. Format of those forms are different than those dated 1945, though.

2. Are we comfortable with a form that is "typed" by the returning GI listing the inventory he wanted to bring home ? Would GI's have access to use a typewriter ?

Many forms I have seen are filled out in hand-written penmanship by the GI.

3. Are we comfortable with the "inventory" listing of the items to be brought home by the GI typed over and on top of a portion of the authorizing officer's name/signature ?

Many forms I have seen try to avoid that...staying well clear of the signature-block of the approving officer.

 

Pete,
Many, if not most, bringback papers are typed; company clerks you know had typewriters!
What makes you think the soldier typed the form; or even filled out a hand written form ?

I think we all said we have problems with the "oddities" of the OP papers.

 

I have sold a lot of capture paper guns, but can't say I've really studied them. This one certainly stands out as being odd only because of the level of detail. We sold this on consignment for a Senior Forum member. I didn't really think much about the paper, just the gun. The price reflects the price of the gun with little or no value to the paper. As already stated, the buyer and seller are both forum members and both happy with the transaction. The only times I have fully researched paperwork was when it truly added value; such as 2 times guns were reported to have been captured from U-boats. In those cases I even went to the trouble of tracking down family members to get verification of some of the facts. In those circumstances the values doubled as did the amount of information to back it up.

 

Tom,
thanks for the info. I would have bought the L P08 regardless of paper, as it is an un-common sight configuration for a 1918 for sure.

Of the 25,000 or so 1918 L P08s produced("normal" sight config is fixed front and rear elev. only), I have noted that some 12 have been reported/or observed with the fine tune front sight. Only one has been observed with a fine tune rear sight and none with both fine tuned.
Jan Still started a table in his Central Powers book, p-103 listing 4 serial numbers with the fine tune front; because of my interest I have added by observation another 8 serial numbers(some may be duplicate # of those listed by Jan-so the actual number observed could be fewer).

Configuration is only meaningful on matching numbered pistols of course, so some I have seen I could not determine if matching or not, or the picture left out the front sight; so there are likely a few more. The quantity of 12 with fine tune front sight noted, so far, is = to 0.05% of production. If anyone has one of these, I'd appreciate having your number, PM me please.

At any rate, adding this one with fine tune front sight was un-expected given how few there are! Now to find a matching 1918 with both fine tuned sights!!!

To the seller, I'd like to know more on the history of this piece or even that there is none- so please PM me if you don't mind- as I am the "buyer". Thanks in advance.

 

Your capture papers look fine to me. Detailed, but appear to be original.

 

Hi Don,

Jan started this Thread and his last update was in 2005. It is a "sticky".

luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?5100-LP08-fine-tuned-sights-research

His book gleaned more guns by the time it was published in 2007.

Members have continued to report sight-conditions for LP08's right up to year 2017.

Have you gone through those to cull the more recent reportings ?


I have seen as many hand-written as typed versions of Capture Papers in my gun show travels.

Quick Google-image and Bing-image search bring up hand-written ones pretty easily. Many of those are dated prior to the end of the War.

 

Pete,
Yes, I have searched the thread. I even started one of my own asking for more info- but no 1918s have been added lately.

I agree, capture/bring back papers can be typed or hand written; but are usually found on a standard "form", though not always.
And are found with various dates as you point out, certainly not only post surrender as implied earlier in one of the posts.

 

Update- 11-22-2017- paper received.

I'm still confused by the layout of the items, and the two "intensities" of typing. No question that the "paper" is legit, aged, faded , thin and worn- but the typing?

Looking at the reverse shows the imprint of the letters- especially the periods, the luger entry is the same intensity as the name.

Someone mentioned the typing over the signature, I would expect that the "CO" signed a bunch of blank forms and the info was typed in by the clerk assigned the duty, for sure the signer did not likely do the typing, nor the owner of the items. JMHO.

Very curious indeed. I'll have the paper at our club show in Morganton, NC on Dec. 2. Anyone in the area can have a look!

A few more pictures.