Heinz, Thanks for the confirmation of the Dural serial numbers. I think Martin meant your Model 30 Sauer should have a 6 digit serial number. Regards, JIM

 

He failed to mention that. I hope that his "early" numbers are really early. It takes enough effort to import one, I would hate to have to return it. You don't think that he would use the picture of another gun? It seems to match the description. Great, now I have another thing to worry about.

 

Sauers cont'd

Here are some pics of a 1930 I just purchased. It seems this model are rather more common in other countries. Note the 3 digit serial.

I am also in the process of importing a Dural with no markings. It has a few single number frame marks. Frame and slide are alloy, barrel is Krupp. The whole gun has original brownish blue colour identical to mid war byf flare guns. When it arrives I will post the pics of it. My guess is that it is a prototype or some other special gun. Maybe I should not post this here, but the place I got it from had it listed as a "Chinese Sauer copy" If that were true I would still buy it, however I looked up some production data of China in the 1930's and they had virtually no Aluminum production capacity. Also, their fakes seem to go the other way with great care to "over mark" their guns. It seems unlikely they would just mark the grips and barrel.

 

Here are some pics of a 1930 I just purchased. It seems this model are rather more common in other countries. Note the 3 digit serial.

Hi paleoarms,

no, it will have a four digit SN, most probably in the 19x,xxx range (note adjustable front sight). The Italian seller you have the photos from is known for covering the SN partially.

I'm curious to see the Dural you are awaiting!

Best regards

Martin

 

Yes those were Dural numbers. If I can get my camera working I will post some pictures of some of them.

 

Hi paleoarms,

thanks for telling. Most interesting!

Regards

Martin

 

Thanks Martin. That is interesting

 

Martin: here is my 1913 with a slightly lower serial number than you noted and the ZS

 

Heinz,

thanks for showing. Yes, this is one of those mentioned above which do have the ZS retrofitted. Interestingly, I have five other recorded in the 121xxx SN block having the ZS added. Although these don’t have police markings I’m quiet sure, these are police pistols. Only the police retrofitted their Sauer 1913s with the ZS. The Bavarians did it already in the twenties, the rest of the police did it in the thirties due to a Himmler decree.

Regards

Martin

 

Paleoarms, Are the numbers you listed DURAL Sauers or not?
Thanks, Jim Cate

 

Paleoarms, it sounds like you need a firing pin spring that pushes the firing pin forward that catches on the searbar that the trigger pushes against. Is it missing or is the wrong spring (too short) inserted inside the firing pin? If all original parts are present the trigger is pushed forward after each shot by the process mentioned above. Please advise if the serial numbers you provided are DURAL Sauer pistols or not. It seems like they are but I want to be sure. Many thanks, JIM CATE

 

Hi paleoarms,

all SNs mentioned by you are Duralaluminum variations? Interesting, thanks for let us know.

No, 208001 is not the first produced. Production of the Behördenmodell started at 200,001 and the first Durals I’m aware of are 203099 and 203101. Both were sold to the Soviets in November 1932. The relating correspondence between Sauer and the Soviets is shown in Cate/Krause (available i. a. here: http://www.germanguns.com/books/B065.html)

Regards

Martin

 

Sauer Duralumin

I have been following these pistols for a while. Every time I go to a gun show I jot down the number an details. Here are the serials I have marked down in the last 10 years. I own one complete pistol and most of a second. The only way to buy these is from an unknowing seller, otherwise the price goes up x10. Here are the numbers and details:

Mine: 216858 matching, unknown history, no import mark.
Mine: 215,976 matching (frame & Slide only)

209878 Matching, exceedingly poor condition, no marks
216799 Matching, Nice vet bringback, no marks
216961 ?, Nice, import marked & blackened
208001, Presentation pistol, Engraved, listed as the first produced. Don not know how true the claims are. Saw it at a gun show once in 1991 and again in 1999. Has an Oak case, marked similar to the pistol and a Bronze medallion on the front. He would not let me handle it.

http://luger.gunboards.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=139560

 

Paleoarms,

thanks for telling the SNs. Your 1913 is a second variation made app. in 1919/20 and will not have the ZS. Still, I don’t know what the problem could be. Did you remove the safety before re-installing the other parts? If not, give it a try.

Regarding your Dural: these are rare birds and you are right: not many is known about them. I’m aware of only a handful known to exist. Some few in the 20x,xxx range, but the majority in the 216xxx and above range. Currently I’m aware of 16 or so.

There are two variations: “in the white” and blackened. Some think the black color comes from anodization, others think it’s just color (like on the French Petter pistol). Some of these are equipped with Krupp Nirosta barrels (stainless steel), others have normal steel barrels. What about yours? Does it have a Nirosta barrel?

I liked to see some photos and I’d appreciate if you cold post photos here.

Regards

Martin

 

sauer pistol problem

OK. I got it back together and the trigger works, but to switch the safety on, I have to physically pull the trigger forward as if it is missing a spring. the serial on this gun is 98886.

 

Saur & Sohne pistol

216858

 

What's the serial number of the Dural?

 

Thanks Sauerfan another ques.

What info do you have on the 1930 "Behorden" model Sauer? I have one made from Duralumin. It was a presentation HJ gun "suposedly" awarded by Hitler to top officials. Grips have an inlaid HJ diamond and a sterling silver diamond on the other. Anyhow I got it from a dealer in 1994 for a $90.00. Someone had painted it with black spray paint or gun paint. Probably tried to make an attempt to blue it and found out it was not steel. I know they are fairly uncommon. But I can find very little info on it. One appeared on an auction site in December. Mine is only 15 numbers off that one. A friend in Germany remembers seeing a photo of Hitler presenting these guns in cases to a line of officers, but I have not found that. In fact I can't find any pics at all. I would love to know how many were made, when and what they should look like. I have only seen one other in person and because of the softer metal, it showed a lot of wear. I only came by mine because the paint on it was so thick it made the gun look fake, like a toy. Underneath was a very nice gun, but no finish.

I will give my 1913 another try later. Thanks for the cut-away.

 

Hi Paleoarms,

here are two other interesting sites:

http://www.marstar.ca/AssemblySauer1930.htm

This deals with the model 1930, but most hints are applicable for the Sauer 1913 also.

http://www.vestpockets.bauli.at/archiv/archiv.htm

This site deals with .25 acp pistols. Check out the Sauer 1919s early and late. These little sisters of your 1913 are technically the same as your 1913.

And finally, find enclosed a sectional drawing of a Sauer 1913 what could be helpful also. Part #21 (the ZS) probably isn’t present on yours.

Regards

Martin

 

Hi Paleoarms,

check this out:

http://www.bvs.cz/soucastky_rozpady_nem_sauer_1913_765.html

I guess, you mean part #14 of said diagram. This is only present, if it is a variation of the Sauer 1913 having the “Zusatzsicherung” (ZS - Additional safety). The ZS is present only, if the serial number is higher than 137xxx approximately or if it is an earlier police variation (those have the ZS also with lower SNs).

In any case: the ZS shouldn’t be a part of your problem, as the ZS is active only, when the safety lever is in the “SAFE” position.

Honestly, I don’t understand why there is a problem. Make sure, the front tip of part #19 is arranged in the notch on the back of the trigger. Also make sure, the slide catch lever is mounted correctly. Compare with my photo of the four main parts (parts #017 - #020 of the a. m. diagram)

Or is the SN of your Sauer below 9,xxx ??? in this case, the problem could be related to the magazine safety present on early variations (a blank push button on the left side below the safety lever). In any case, the SN of your gun could help.

Regards

Martin