[mhassoun]

I strongly suspect the "HK" is a much later addition on 2.

Accepting that these internally numbered guns were the first ones produced in the HK PX series, one would expect that there were some HK toggles (and some blank ones) in the parts bins. Why weren’t they used on this one early gun but were used on over 200 guns after that?

 

[RyanE]

Accepting that these internally numbered guns were the first ones produced in the HK PX series, one would expect that there were some HK toggles (and some blank ones) in the parts bins. Why weren’t they used on this one early gun but were used on over 200 guns after that?

Just to be clear, I meant the 'Circle HK' on the top of the receiver.

As for toggles, it's all just reasonable speculation but my guess would be the leftover parts were in deep storage somewhere. No Lugers had been put together since 1940 (IMO), and it is very unlikely a lot of their leftover stock would be sitting out on the factory floor.

It probably took time for someone who knew where to find the boxes of parts to go get them from where ever they had been stored. It's clear a lot of parts were simply unavailable at least initially, so the early ones use a lot of stuff salvaged from WWI junk that must have been accessible from somewhere. Local depot or maybe local Suhl gunsmiths, maybe.

 

[mhassoun]

OP List updated: added sn 182 & 195 from R. Shattuck Lists. Also, picture of sn 185 added to the matrix. Total known PX are now at 49 pistols.

 

[mhassoun]

I updated the list and pics in the matrix in the OP (Post #1). 55% of theses guns are accounted for as of today.

 

[mhassoun]

Two post-war (1945 assembled) Krieghoff P08 have recently surfaced and were added to the OP list (and to the sn image matrix).

• sn 88 with Krieghoff logo on toggle.
• sn 155 w/o the logo. (In my collection now)

That puts it at a total of 53 observed/reported guns. Keep them coming!

 

[taudelt]

Show and tell on #135

 

[taudelt]

These two would not fit. Hard to see barrel but it looks like it has an E/135 Mauser barrel.

ut it looks like a E/ 135 Mauser barrel.

 

[Jason S L]

These two would not fit. Hard to see barrel but it looks like it has an E/135 Mauser barrel. View attachment 756114 View attachment 756115
ut it looks like a E/ 135 Mauser barrel.

That’s a cool gun 👏🏼

 

[mhassoun]

Show and tell on #135
View attachment 756107 View attachment 756109
View attachment 756110
View attachment 756111
View attachment 756112
View attachment 756108

Dave, sn 135 has a lot in common with sn 155. This tightens the transition threshold (?) from HK logo & HK barrels to blank toggles & Mauser barrels in those post war HK Lugers. More context here,

https://www.lugerforums.com/threads/comparing-two-post-war-krieghoff-p-08-sn-96-sn-155.132914/post-1063742

 

[mhassoun]

I will add sn 135 to my list in the OP.

 

[1933 FORD NUT]

interesting comparison for 135.
1943 11567
Big proof in rear position on frame is fairly un- common.
Small proof in rear position is not common either.
Small proof in forward position on frame is much more common.
Gun is not worn but bluing [especially barrel] is quite thin.

Obvious to me the Sempert and Krieghoff workers took much more care in bluing the postwar assembled guns.
Postwar assembled 135 has MUCH BETTER bluing than 1943 11567

Hey Dave, please post the front framewell pic . I have the one you sent but it will not post here
It is 2 digits .
3 digits is by far more common

ADDED some more pics that show non- blasted ears and overall view showing weak bluing and really poor grips.
Interesting that some postwar assembled guns have nice grips??

 

[1933 FORD NUT]

Another comparison for 135. No notations with pic but commercial- parts gun of some sort for sure.

 

[taudelt]

Dave... Front frame well picture as requested on PX 135

 

[mhassoun]

The transition from HK logo to blank toggle seems to have occurred between post-war HK sn 121 and 128.

But then came sn 162 (Gibson p. 240) with an older logo!

 

[mhassoun]

Postwar Kreighoff P08 sn 103 added to OP list.

 

[mhassoun]

Based on the markings on sn 103 we now know that the Krieghoff factory (postwar) had enough HK barrels for at least 103 guns, and HK logo toggles for at least the first 121 guns.
Toggle and barrel stamp on sn 103. 👇

 

[1933 FORD NUT]

Remember to look further as E2 parts proofs on post 1940 guns get erratic.
You may find the un-marked barrels are indeed HK parts.

Not uncommon to find barrels without the small parts proof on 1941- 1944 and Post war guns.
Actually, somewhat common on 1943, 1944 and post war guns.

Parts acceptance E2s on most parts gets erratic on most parts post 1940.
You can follow this right through the post- war assembled guns.
Early, mid and late type parts proofs completely scrambled post 1940.

Look at your 2 Post war examples.

CORRECTING parts proofs post 1940 get erratic. Wrote it wrong and it is corrected now.

 

[mhassoun]

An inspection of the OP table of serial numbers clearly shows a variation in the sn font (and size) applied. However, the 26 reported guns in serial range 45-200 (with a couple of exceptions) the font set used seems to be consistent, as can be seen below.

​

I believe the post-war (1945) Krieghoff P08 were the only Lugers that employed that font. If that is true, then this raises the question (that I don't have an answer for) as to why the smaller Krighoff sn digits used on pre-1945 HKs were not used? Were the stamping dies lost, or had gotten worn out? Or, was there a deliberate decision to change the font on the post-war ones? There doesn't seem to be any documentation on this. Open for your speculations!

 

[mhassoun]

Documented Postwar Krieghoff P08 SN 22 (internally numbered) with barrel sn 3162 seems to have set a price record (for a PX) of $19,550 back in 2014 (about $30K after fees and accounting for inflation). Who cares about the "million-dollar grip chip." Ref. RIA, September 2014.

​

 

[mhassoun]

About 30% of the postwar Krieghoff P.08s are now accounted for. This is (understandably) roughly three times the number of reported Krieghoff Lugers produced during WWII. The following chart shows the probability density function for the reported postwar Krieghoff P.08s. One would expect this distribution to be relatively flat—and it generally is—except for the 25 to 80 serial number range, which includes two guns, SN 45 and SN 56, notable for their uniquely large serial number font

​

If one excludes SN 45, 55, and 56 from the list (incidentally, these guns are not reported in Gibson’s book), the resulting PDF is shown below. The dip is quite curious!

​