[johnboy]

Legacy has number 0 & number 11 for sale currently.

My conspiracy theory radar makes me think number 0 is out of Ralph's back room.

 

[mhassoun]

Legacy has number 0 & number 11 for sale currently.

My conspiracy theory radar makes me think number 0 is out of Ralph's back room.

Had these been vetted postwar Krieghoff-assembled Lugers, Legacy would be asking north of $6K for each. I have SN 11 in my Postwar Krieghoff Luger list. Personally, I’m suspicious of the legitimacy of some of the guns in the 1–23 range—the distribution there is just too dense.
Simpson has recently dropped the price of a consigned "PX" SN 18 to $6,750.

 

[stiknruddr]

I purchased 23 from Legacy recently Lw on rt frame and toggle. DWM used barrel type 3 unproofed mag type 5 grips. Frame, sideplate (internal) toggle firing pin marked 23. Rest small parts not marked.

 

[stiknruddr]

I purchased 23 from Legacy recently Lw on rt frame and toggle. DWM used barrel type 3 unproofed mag type 5 grips. Frame, sideplate (internal) toggle firing pin marked 23. Rest small parts not marked.

 

[stiknruddr]

Due documentation I’d say some previous conjectures about HK on toggle ect may need a re-think. I believe they were using anything available

 

[stiknruddr]

Due documentation I’d say some previous conjectures about HK on toggle ect may need a re-think. I believe they were using anything available

Experts? HK toggles used till they ran out ect?

 

[mhassoun]

It seems that the postwar HK Lugers in the serial number range 1–23 were assembled in more of a “rush” compared to the later group, which have serial numbers on both the frame and the slide.
Compare SN 18 (currently listed by Simpson Ltd.) and SN 23 to the two guns at this Link.

 

[johnboy]

Had these been vetted postwar Krieghoff-assembled Lugers, Legacy would be asking north of $6K for each. I have SN 11 in my Postwar Krieghoff Luger list. Personally, I’m suspicious of the legitimacy of some of the guns in the 1–23 range—the distribution there is just too dense.
Simpson has recently dropped the price of a consigned "PX" SN 18 to $6,750.

Where did they come from? The increase in "questionable" items at Simpsons and legacy, or things with "explanations" as to being questionable, and having low prices to compensate just leads me to think the stuff from the backroom is starting to move.

 

[stiknruddr]

Where did they come from? The increase in "questionable" items at Simpsons and legacy, or things with "explanations" as to being questionable, and having low prices to compensate just leads me to think the stuff from the backroom is starting to move.

Are you questioning the documentation presented here? I assure you the paperwork is genuine and has been inspected by several collectors far more knowledgeable than I.

 

[johnboy]

And now they have #14 for sale. It's like they hit the PX goldmine somehow.
1945, End-of-War, Put-Together "PX Gun" Luger

 

[stiknruddr]

I heard a collection was being liquidated

 

[mhassoun]

One interesting common feature of PX guns SN 11, 14, 18, and 23 is that they all have worn bores (condition 5/10 or worse). SN 11, 18 and 23 have donor barrels sn 7268L, 5602d, and 310b, respectively. All guns in the SN 1–23 range feature blank toggles and small-font external serial numbers, located only on the front of the frame. Additionally, the triggers and locking bolts on SN 14, 18, and 23 are not strawed. Taken together, these characteristics may suggest that this batch of PX guns was the last to be assembled in 1945, using whatever parts remained available.

Edit to add (from the description of SN 14 by RIA): "Interestingly, this specific Luger has a very rough, probably rejected barrel forging as it does not appear to have been properly heat treated and has with minor pitting on the entire outside area of the barrel. The bore also shows erosion throughout with very faint rifling that is almost a smooth bore."

 

[mhassoun]

I purchased 23 from Legacy recently Lw on rt frame and toggle. DWM used barrel type 3 unproofed mag type 5 grips. Frame, sideplate (internal) toggle firing pin marked 23. Rest small parts not marked.

Can you provide a clear picture of the barrel witness mark (with the gun disassembled)? Thanks!

 

[johnboy]

Point I was after is pics of 10, 14, 18 and 23 sure look like early Ralph and associates work to me.
Would not be surprised if some of the other pre- 24 guns are similar.
Many examples of these all dark- same color guns around.
Look at the 1945 pic.
Any similarities?

Odd that they not only look funny but over 50% of serial 1- 23 are here.
I see nothing like that survival rate anywhere else.

On the condition thing I believe many guns came home in excellent shape but were used- abused here.
Who has not seen a new condition WW2 gun that has major bad storage rust issues. etc.

This is from post #29 in this thread.

I heard a collection was being liquidated

I'd love to know what "collection" they came from.

Call me a conspiracy nut, but does no one beside myself think it's odd that FIVE of these guns would all be in one "collection"? And if from different sources all end up at one dealer? At the same time? https://legacy-collectibles.com/search.php?search_query=PX%20gunX gun search results

FACT, Legacy currently has for sale or has sold PX#s NSN, 10, 11, 14, and 23 all with the same dark characteristics mentioned. Simpsons has #18 which I believe is also from the same "collection".

Legacy also sold #9 "Oddball" PX in 2017 also with the same dark look, possibly unrelated but if it is that's 9,10,11, all in a row.

Smoking gun, or coincidence? You decide.

 

[mhassoun]

One thing SN 23 has going for it is its Krieghoff made frame, as evidenced by the mag well contour and the shape of its magazine guide recess.

​

The upper lacks the pronounced HK gap, though.

​

Compare the gap to postwar HK SN 96 & 155,

​

 

[stiknruddr]

With the original bring back paperwork on 23 what does it say? It irrefutable.

 

[mhassoun]

The closer a postwar-assembled Krieghoff is to the characteristics of a pre-1945 HK Luger, the more desirable it becomes. It appears that the market has set the price for a postwar HK with a "tired" donor barrel—typically those without a serial number on the slide—at roughly 50% of the value of examples with a serialized slide.

 

[johnboy]

With the original bring back paperwork on 23 what does it say? It irrefutable.

Not exactly. Documentation is probably easier to fake than a luger.

But, Let's say that the capture paper wasn't forged in 1972 by Ralph et. al. and it's legit and the gun is good.

Why does the customs doc say; Pistol-German-luger, NO NUMBER? Written just like the capture paper. Pistol-german-luger 23

Same exact verbiage style, but they went out of their way to say NO NUMBER, why not 23?

I think Legacy accidentally gave you the "documentation" for the NSN gun.
Both from the same "collection" and attributed to the same previous owner.

My .02, I've been wrong once before. Odd legacy has cornered the market on these tho.

 

[stiknruddr]

Not exactly. Documentation is probably easier to fake than a luger.

But, Let's say that the capture paper wasn't forged in 1972 by Ralph et. al. and it's legit and the gun is good.

Why does the customs doc say; Pistol-German-luger, NO NUMBER? Written just like the capture paper. Pistol-german-luger 23

Same exact verbiage style, but they went out of their way to say NO NUMBER, why not 23?

I think Legacy accidentally gave you the "documentation" for the NSN gun.
Both from the same "collection" and attributed to the same previous owner.

My .02, I've been wrong once before. Odd legacy has cornered the market on these tho.

Complete BS no offense…the paperwork is original the vet reference is verified the gravesite is verified what more would you like? My goodness…give it a break man! The fake fake thing is getting old…

 

[stiknruddr]

All folded into same envelope think what you want if you have proof of other than the documents shown please provide